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  1. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Brian, there is only ONE WAY in which science involves predictions. That is when those predictions are tested by REPEATABLE experiment. Nothing else is science.

    In the strict sense, this is how science retains procedure that goes beyond the human condition. It is how we keep opinion from influencing real science.

    I don't confuse anything. It is you who confuses a scientist talking to a reporter with science. That article that I posted from the Washington Post? Not science.

    I've tried to beat this in to your head for like a decade now. My question to you is, when do you get it?

    I guess the answer at this point can only be never?

    Name one time I have given you an opinion as science. One time. While doing so, please do not confuse MY opinion with science; something at which you are apparently an expert.

    Confusing opinion with science is a wholly inaccurate way to approach the matter.
    I agree with you Scrog...

    In YOUR mind, you are not confusing anything...

    Problem is... YOUR mind is not seeing as large of a picture as some of us...

    Sorry... however the truth hurts sometimes...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  2. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Oh, one more thing, about the predictions.

    I thought we had this hashed out the last time we discussed this a couple of months ago. Let's review;

    Predictions of all types are based on one simple formula; "if things go on like this; then X will happen".

    When such predictions are made, sometimes intelligent people heed them. Then, armed with ambition, ideas and tools, they make sure that things DO NOT go on like this.

    This is a very great victory for science. Not the weakness you proclaim it to be.

    As a matter of fact, I remember that post and the points I made were generally well received, including by yourself. You even liked the post.

    But now, I take a couple of months off and come back to find that you are right back at it as if we never had that conversation at all.

    Question: What's up with that? Should I consider your posts to be generally non-genuine from now on?
    A careful student of history knows...

    It just does not work that way...

    Maybe in a fraction of MM deep thinking...
    However when probing deep in the variables...

    It just does not happen that way!

    Scroggie...
    May I suggest you study history, rather than science...
    It would be eye-opening for you...

    The thing you have left out... is folks who intentionally band together to deceitfully manipulate the thinking of the masses... for personal gain.
    Now do NOT tell us that does not happen... there is endless proof of it... and it is all over ARP (only the ostriches do not see it).

    Maybe we should start a thread to cite specific examples of this???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  3. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Science has proven this, have they?

    Bud, science only proves things by accident while they do what science is meant to do. Explain things.

    I await your white paper that show the repeatable experiments that lead to this peer reviewed conclusion. Let's see.

    My god, man. You are off the pier.

    Let me ask you this, Brian. Do you remember the first thing you learned about science in school? What was it?

    All you are doing is showing exactly why the GOP can't be trusted with science concepts. Given that they don't understand the scientific method like AT ALL, what do you think observers of your false positions (at least with regards to valid science) should think of YOUR opinions?

    This isn't rocket science. The scientific method is 7th grade material.
    From Wikipedia:

    "Statistics is a mathematical body of science that pertains to the collection, analysis, interpretation or explanation, and presentation of data, or as a branch of mathematics. Some consider statistics to be a distinct mathematical science rather than a branch of mathematics."

    And yes, stats have shown deep recessions cause death and suffering.

    Science denier.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
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  4. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    From Wikipedia:

    "Statistics is a mathematical body of science that pertains to the collection, analysis, interpretation or explanation, exploitation, and presentation of data, or as a branch of mathematics. Some consider statistics to be a distinct mathematical science rather than a branch of mathematics."

    And yes, stats have shown deep recessions cause death and suffering.

    Science denier.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    FIFY...

    You missed one of the details...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  5. #96
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    Brian, whether or not math can be considered an empirical science is a debate that goes back to Plato.

    Even so, that does not mean that math can somehow follow different rules when it is acting, if you will, as a science. Science will ALWAYS have the same methodology.

    The only way math can be a science is if it also follows the scientific method. Hypothesis must be presented, falsification parameters must be identified, experiments must be conducted, results analyzed and interpreted.

    How can I be a denier when I have asked you to present the white paper that shows these things as ALL science requires but instead you give me a sentence from a wiki article? I'd be more than willing to consider this case, all that is required is that you actually MAKE the case.

    Interesting too that you'd spend your entire ARP career pooping on models, but now all of a sudden, they're good. Statistical models suffer from the same garbage-in/garbage-out mechanics that computer programs do. They might tell us something, they might be total garbage.

    That's what I hope to find out when you present the actual science. Please don't forget to show peer review as well.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

  6. #97
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    How many white papers predicted doom and gloom in the climate...
    Then when the time came (date of prediction)... it did not happen!

    Do you see why some folks do not take a 'white paper' seriously???

    BTW: Most paper I see is white...
    (Yeah, I know, that was cheap... grin)
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  7. Likes Tool-Slinger liked this post.
  8. #98
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    White papers do not make doom and gloom predictions, GA. They describe process, methodology and results. The reason for that is that peer review is still to come.

    Of course, it's been pretty clear over the years that you have no idea what a white paper even is in the first place.

    Not only that, my guess is that if Brian actually produces what I've asked for, it will be an article that was not presented to or reviewed by the scientific community. It will not be a white paper. It probably won't even contain an experiment of any kind.

    Prove me wrong, Brian.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

  9. #99
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    Corona virus not matching extreme predictions:

    https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread...5#post25847055
    Dem=Washington Democrat
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    White papers do not make doom and gloom predictions, GA. They describe process, methodology and results. The reason for that is that peer review is still to come.

    Of course, it's been pretty clear over the years that you have no idea what a white paper even is in the first place.

    Not only that, my guess is that if Brian actually produces what I've asked for, it will be an article that was not presented to or reviewed by the scientific community. It will not be a white paper. It probably won't even contain an experiment of any kind.

    Prove me wrong, Brian.
    Scrog...

    First off... please do not hear me picking on YOU...
    Rather refuting your blind reliance on science... WITHOUT reading between the lines of the validity of what is called scientific fact.

    OK, now that this is over:

    Are you gonna go on record as saying:

    NEVER has there EVER been a white paper written on the climate...
    Which included a date and specific bad things which were to happen...
    Which turned out to NOT happen???

    Are you gonna go on record this has NEVER happened???

    And BTW: when you talk down to people... you ask for the responses you get...
    (Of course, it's been pretty clear over the years that you have no idea what a white paper even is in the first place.)
    That sentence has a tone of a person who sees themselves as superior (due to perceived education/ability), and therefor better than, another.
    NOBODY likes being treated that way guy...
    Just saying...
    Not picking on you...

    We are all created equal... the founding documents request we see each other that way...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  11. Likes Tool-Slinger liked this post.
  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Brian, whether or not math can be considered an empirical science is a debate that goes back to Plato.

    Even so, that does not mean that math can somehow follow different rules when it is acting, if you will, as a science. Science will ALWAYS have the same methodology.

    The only way math can be a science is if it also follows the scientific method. Hypothesis must be presented, falsification parameters must be identified, experiments must be conducted, results analyzed and interpreted.

    How can I be a denier when I have asked you to present the white paper that shows these things as ALL science requires but instead you give me a sentence from a wiki article? I'd be more than willing to consider this case, all that is required is that you actually MAKE the case.

    Interesting too that you'd spend your entire ARP career pooping on models, but now all of a sudden, they're good. Statistical models suffer from the same garbage-in/garbage-out mechanics that computer programs do. They might tell us something, they might be total garbage.

    That's what I hope to find out when you present the actual science. Please don't forget to show peer review as well.
    Would you like a nice red wine with your asinine arrogance soup, sir?
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

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    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    Corona virus not matching extreme predictions:

    https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread...5#post25847055
    I am skeptical, but yea, I am still left wondering at the moment,.. "if this were not a presidential election year, just how big of a deal would this be right now?" IDK, but there seems room for the doubt.


    And for Scrogg... yes I have a white paper on that. The package said Charmin Ultra Soft.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

    "This is me, I'm not at home. If you'd like to reach me, leave me alone." Sherl Crow

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

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  15. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I am skeptical, but yea, I am still left wondering at the moment,.. "if this were not a presidential election year, just how big of a deal would this be right now?" IDK, but there seems room for the doubt.


    And for Scrogg... yes I have a white paper on that. The package said Charmin Ultra Soft.
    I am skeptical it will be as bad as predicted also... but I do not believe at all that it has to do with politics. I think it is good ol fashioned yellow journalism along with the human fascination with doomsday predictions.

    https://www.livescience.com/14179-do...pocalypse.html

  16. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Would you like a nice red wine with your asinine arrogance soup, sir?
    Sorry you see it that way. I see it as calling out someone who has made a bold claim. Let's see some backup instead of a sentence from wiki.

    And, of course, you are ok with Brian implying that I'm shallow thinker. Not arrogant at all.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

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