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  1. #1
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    COVID-19 Surprise?

    I avoid the media but had heard of this issue soon after it developed but I must say I’m SHOCKED with were we are today!!
    Last week I was thinking that the shutdown of the country was too aggressive.
    Soon after that thought turned to too little too late.

    Why/how could we have been blindsided by this?

    Im sure there were those in the know screaming at us (policy makers) to do something but why were they ignored?

    What did I miss?
    Eric

  2. #2
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    There are multiple reports about warnings. 1. that part of the Obama to Trump transition presentations was about how a viral pandemic was probably our weakness and 2. multiple reports through Jan and Feb that Covid19 is the real deal

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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    There are multiple reports about warnings. 1. that part of the Obama to Trump transition presentations was about how a viral pandemic was probably our weakness ................
    5 years ago.......
    https://youtu.be/6Af6b_wyiwI
    WTH?
    Eric

  5. #4
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    Exactly the same thing that makes the belief that the federal government is competent to handle single payer health care is exactly the cause of the delay in testing.

    I'm baffled by the people who blame the slow response and set backs on Trump. Honestly, any mistakes made by Trump are miniscule in comparison.

    Here is a pretty good read on the bureaucratic, regulation mess that set up road blocks. It's the New Yorker magazine so they toss jabs at Trump, but anyone with a head on their shoulders sees the actual root cause of the problems.

    Trump did what he could do and did it quickly. The rest is explained well in the link below and it is the crap pile the federal government dumps in front of progress or anything good.

    It's a bit amusing reading a liberal rag and how they contort themselves try to blame Trump. But it's pretty easy to see what stood in the way of a faster response. On multiple occasions. The New Yorker tried, but honestly the facts stood in their way. The federal government is a mess. It always will be. Trump is trying to fix it. Trying to streamline it. But the dopes who are easily swayed by leftist propaganda stand in the way.

    Look at what the Senate is doing today for Christ's sake. Airline efficiency standards? College loan forgiveness? Federal government control of corporations? Tax payer guaranteed loans for solar panel and wind energy companies? What the hell is wrong with these evil leftist? People are sitting home right now not getting paid. Why isn't the press demanding Schumer and Polosi's heads on a platter? Because they are part of this evil. What will it take for you people to see the true villains?

    Even though there is as much of a leftist slant as they could muster with a straight face, this is an interesting read. It outlines the hurdles and the mistakes made...... by the out of control bureaucracy. The same one that would make a disaster out of single payer.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...ting-in-the-us

  6. #5
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    Trump shut off travel from China or something... said it would disappear in days... and just moved on... dim conspiracy... fake news... all is well... gotta keep the numbers low so I look good... gotta save the economy for my sake...not that of American and world citizens.

    Maybe if Trump had been thinking about what was best for everyone instead of just what was best for him and his ego.... we would have a better handle on this thing.
    The bible is my constitution and the constitution is my bible.

    WE THE PEOPLE refers to THEM and not YOU.

    Oprah/Greta 2020

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  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Exactly the same thing that makes the belief that the federal government is competent to handle single payer health care is exactly the cause of the delay in testing.

    I'm baffled by the people who blame the slow response and set backs on Trump. Honestly, any mistakes made by Trump are miniscule in comparison.

    Here is a pretty good read on the bureaucratic, regulation mess that set up road blocks. It's the New Yorker magazine so they toss jabs at Trump, but anyone with a head on their shoulders sees the actual root cause of the problems.

    Trump did what he could do and did it quickly. The rest is explained well in the link below and it is the crap pile the federal government dumps in front of progress or anything good.

    It's a bit amusing reading a liberal rag and how they contort themselves try to blame Trump. But it's pretty easy to see what stood in the way of a faster response. On multiple occasions. The New Yorker tried, but honestly the facts stood in their way. The federal government is a mess. It always will be. Trump is trying to fix it. Trying to streamline it. But the dopes who are easily swayed by leftist propaganda stand in the way.

    Look at what the Senate is doing today for Christ's sake. Airline efficiency standards? College loan forgiveness? Federal government control of corporations? Tax payer guaranteed loans for solar panel and wind energy companies? What the hell is wrong with these evil leftist? People are sitting home right now not getting paid. Why isn't the press demanding Schumer and Polosi's heads on a platter? Because they are part of this evil. What will it take for you people to see the true villains?

    Even though there is as much of a leftist slant as they could muster with a straight face, this is an interesting read. It outlines the hurdles and the mistakes made...... by the out of control bureaucracy. The same one that would make a disaster out of single payer.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...ting-in-the-us
    If you approached the information with a "government bad" bias I can see how you would come to your conclusion. Let me try to give a different interpretation based on the information using a hypothetical corporation since that seems easier for the folks that feel government is incapable of being structured to operate efficiently to understand.

    This corp has a number of divisions with specific purposes and responsibilities although their primary duties are siloed there is some overlap in their capabilities. Let us remove the chairmen of the board and all the board members, the corporate structure beneath that level remains the same. Now lets throw in a crisis, say a product defect that could cause great hardship for the corp. The division who released the product begins to work furiously towards a solution unfortunately their efforts are coming up short. Other divisions have the capability to work on this problem also but need guidance and permission to help out, with the board of directors missing there is no official mandate or permission to proceed. Valuable time is lost, but the individual divisions take it upon themselves to skirt the corporate structure to save the corp from bankruptcy. The solution to the problem is eventually found but it remains to be seen if the late implementation has affected the probability of success.

    This is where we are now. Had the NSC directorate not been dismantled the response could have been better directed and quite possibly the time to react and find a solution would have been shorter.
    Last edited by netsalt; 03-24-2020 at 09:06 AM.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    If you approached the information with a "government bad" bias I can see how you would come to your conclusion. Let me try to give a different interpretation based on the information using a hypothetical corporation since that seems easier for the folks that feel government is incapable of being structured to operate efficiently to understand.

    This corp has a number of divisions with specific purposes and responsibilities although their primary duties are siloed there is some overlap in their capabilities. Let us remove the chairmen of the board and all the board members, the corporate structure beneath that level remains the same. Now lets throw in a crisis, say a product defect that could cause great hardship for the corp. The division who released the product begins to work furiously towards a solution unfortunately their efforts are coming up short. Other divisions have the capability to work on this problem also but need guidance and permission to help out, with the board of directors missing there is no official mandate or permission to proceed. Valuable time is lost, but the individual divisions take it upon themselves to skirt the corporate structure to save the corp from bankruptcy. The solution to the problem is eventually found but it remains to be seen if the late implementation has affected the probability of success.

    This is where we are now. Had the NSC directorate not been dismantled the response could have been better directed and quite possibly the time to react and find a solution would have been shorter.
    If Obama had restocked the national healthcare depository we wouldn't have had the supply shortage so maybe the NSC wouldn't have made that much difference.

    You see the problem with your hypothetical corp is that in a regular corp there is a chain of command that start at the bottom and move up so they have a history with the issues the company deals with. We don't have that in government except the bureaucracies that are more concerned with keeping their jobs than what is best for the country. The president isn't chosen from one that has come up through the ranks but has been elected from the outside. Even a lifer like Biden has no clue what is going on through out our government. It could be said that Biden doesn't know what he had for breakfast but that is a different story.

    The point is our government is not a corp nor is it run like one. To lay all the "ifs" at the feet of one man when most of those "ifs" have been building up through the leadership of several different presidents is little more than partisan politics. Remember when Obama blamed the economy on Bush. The reality was Bush played his part but much of the problem was from legislation when Clinton was in office. I have not researched it but my guess would be some of the Clinton legislation was based on things that happened under Bush 41. My guess is that there was a good reason for the NSC was dismantled, I was not invited to that meeting where it was discussed were you, so I have no idea what those reasons were.

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  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Trump shut off travel from China or something... said it would disappear in days... and just moved on... dim conspiracy... fake news... all is well... gotta keep the numbers low so I look good... gotta save the economy for my sake...not that of American and world citizens.

    Maybe if Trump had been thinking about what was best for everyone instead of just what was best for him and his ego.... we would have a better handle on this thing.
    Good job corny. You just keep being a weak minded fool believing what the want you to believe. You are an impressive specimen.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    If Obama had restocked the national healthcare depository we wouldn't have had the supply shortage so maybe the NSC wouldn't have made that much difference.

    Trump had 3 years to do that if he felt it was a priority.

    You see the problem with your hypothetical corp is that in a regular corp there is a chain of command that start at the bottom and move up so they have a history with the issues the company deals with. We don't have that in government except the bureaucracies that are more concerned with keeping their jobs than what is best for the country. The president isn't chosen from one that has come up through the ranks but has been elected from the outside. Even a lifer like Biden has no clue what is going on through out our government. It could be said that Biden doesn't know what he had for breakfast but that is a different story.

    It is not unusual for a chairmen and a board of directors to be from outside the company in corporate America.

    The point is our government is not a corp nor is it run like one. To lay all the "ifs" at the feet of one man when most of those "ifs" have been building up through the leadership of several different presidents is little more than partisan politics. Remember when Obama blamed the economy on Bush. The reality was Bush played his part but much of the problem was from legislation when Clinton was in office. I have not researched it but my guess would be some of the Clinton legislation was based on things that happened under Bush 41. My guess is that there was a good reason for the NSC was dismantled, I was not invited to that meeting where it was discussed were you, so I have no idea what those reasons were.
    My point is that when a part of the leadership is removed at the top level - for whatever reason - the result is chaotic for a while in times of crisis until the leadership at the lower levels takes matters into their own hands, this results in delays. If I were to guess the members of the NSC dealing with these sorts of things were let go because Obama brought them in and Trump is intent on removing any vestige of the previous administration. At the time he said he would not keep people around "just in case" because they would always be available when needed.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

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  15. #10
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    Yes Trump has had 3 years to restock if he wanted or more importantly if he knew about it. That was my point, how much of what was done in government in the past is reported to the people coming in from an election. How much information overload and the people coming in after an election dealing with that they have to prioritize? As I said most government does not operate like a corp. Most corps don't bring in a leader that made jock straps to build cars. The new CEO has some experience in the field they are brought in to lead.

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  17. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Yes Trump has had 3 years to restock if he wanted or more importantly if he knew about it. That was my point, how much of what was done in government in the past is reported to the people coming in from an election. How much information overload and the people coming in after an election dealing with that they have to prioritize? As I said most government does not operate like a corp. Most corps don't bring in a leader that made jock straps to build cars. The new CEO has some experience in the field they are brought in to lead.
    Exactly why we should not elect a leader with no experience, foresight, or ability to understand the consequences of his actions.

  18. #12
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    Dims crack me up. They fight tooth and nail to stop everything Trump does, even to the extent of being criminal and fraudulent. They, then in turn, criticize him for not getting those same things done that they fought so hard to prevent. Insanity at its finest.

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  20. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Good job corny. You just keep being a weak minded fool believing what the want you to believe. You are an impressive specimen.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    No Brian. ItÂ’s the truth. Human urinal made a half ass effort by stopping entry to people who had been to China.

    After that he just dismissed the whole thing. Choosing to listen to people like Hannity, judge Jeannie... some fat ass blogger sitting in a cold dark basement somewhere.

    While experts were warning him of danger... he was blowing them off.... big time

    He failed the country... big times

    Had probably the most knowledgeable experts in the world at his beck and call and he turns to what ... JaredÂ’s chiropractor brother...lol...His barber... some guy on you tube sitting in a bunker in Idaho.

    People are dying because of that piece of sh*t.. and because of people like you Brian... out repeating the same lies and misinformation as that doo doo head.

    You also need to calm down Brian. You get a little too excited in here. You know that... seriously man... you have changed... ranting and raving all the time...itÂ’s only a forum on the net...
    The bible is my constitution and the constitution is my bible.

    WE THE PEOPLE refers to THEM and not YOU.

    Oprah/Greta 2020

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