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  1. #27
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    Something I never understood was why you couldn't force a blank NCM that's been appropriately addressed to take a download. It has to request it on its own. You can force a download to one that already has the database in it but if it's blank, it's gotta want to do it on its own. Sometimes it does it right away, sometimes it takes its sweet time, and rarely, it just refuses to ask for a download. In those cases, I think I've J9ed it a few times and finally it requests a download.

    In the above instructions, once the NCM has downloaded from the laptop, you need to go back into WNCSETUP and set the archive device address to the PMI machine functioning as the archive database if that address is different from your laptop.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    Correct, you do not download the GLOBAL.ddl file to the NCM. The Global file defines the nodes on the network and how the tree is built in PMI. PMI needs to know about the NCM but the NCM doesn't necessarily need to know about PMI.
    That makes sense - so in an NCM replacement scenario, the Global.ddl can stay as it is as all the network layout is static.
    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    The DDL manual states that there is a specific order to compile the DDL files. I think it's NET.ddl, GLOBAL.ddl, MODELS.ddl, and then the NCM ddl file. I'll try to swing by the office tomorrow to confirm the order.
    You know it is a wekend right? hehe
    The manual is up in a browser window as this is on my mind right now. It says:

    You must compile the Workstation Network/Port, Global, andNC files in that specific order, since each file builds upon theprevious file’s data. The Model file must be compiled beforethe NC files that contain CS objects. However, the Model filecan be compiled before or after Workstation or Global files.

    So now you know...
    https://docs.johnsoncontrols.com/bas...MpaGTA/content
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  3. #29
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    Since you're changing an IP address, you'll need to change it in the Global file at the OWS, compile it, and download it. Are there any other OWS pcs on the network? I had a really good JCI guy tell me once that if you download the Global file to one, it will make its way around to the others. I have never, ever, ever, seen that happen in the all the times I've messed with global files. I always put the Global file on a flash drive and walk it around to all the OWSs. We used to have 4 total, now we're down to 2, thank goodness.

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    You can force a download to one that already has the database in it but if it's blank, it's gotta want to do it on its own. Sometimes it does it right away, sometimes it takes its sweet time, and rarely, it just refuses to ask for a download. In those cases, I think I've J9ed it a few times and finally it requests a download.
    How long should I wait before pulling the plug and doing another J9 on the thing? 5 min, 15 min? I have my first new NCM and I am waiting for it to ask for a download now....
    Also, I am working with a VM of the OWS - so all the data SHOULD be the same in the NCM as far as who he should look to for a download. Gate Number, Node Number. I even put the OWS IP address into the NCM already, and just set the Archive Database Address port to Port 3 - all other settings are the same as the OWS.
    I can talk to the NCM just fine - standalone WNCSetup and WNCSetup through PMI on the VM.
    I have waited as long as 7 or 8 minutes, and then I do through WNCSetup and so a reset or a reload to get the thing to restart to start the timer over again.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  5. #31
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    This is a screen of the original NCM, that I am trying to replace. The setting I am putting in the new one are exactly the same, except the port is 3, not IP. Same IP, Network, and everything else.
    When I run PMI in my VM, it connects fine. I run WNCSetup through PMI and I get the notification off to the left that this NCM wants a download.
    I try to send the arichive to the NC and he refuses, and I get the error that it must ask for the download... so it seems like it talks fine.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  6. #32
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    Man, I don’t see anything obvious that’s giving me cause for concern. Do you have the network card in the NCM? I was running your situation by one of the old timers at the shop and he insisted that you had to take the card out, get it setup and downloaded, and then put the card back in. I’m reasonably certain that I’ve done it with the card in the thing.

  7. #33
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    Have you tried connecting via the network card? If your VM is an exact replica of the OWS, it’s possible that it could take a download that way. I’m trying to remember why we always used port 3 for the initial setup on the bench and I think it might be because the laptop was an OWS in and of itself...it was defined as a PC in PMI with a unique IP and distinct from the archive database.

  8. #34
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    I set it up without the network card. The I tried to get him to ask for a download with and without the network card in it. After I got it setup, and talking to the VM of my OWS, I reset it maybe 2 or 3 times with no network card, then 4 or 5 times with the network card in it.
    How long should I wait? Waddya think?
    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    Have you tried connecting via the network card? If your VM is an exact replica of the OWS, it’s possible that it could take a download that way.
    I like that. I may try that tomorrow. I got 3 of these, so aside from the 2 I already condemned, 5 tries seems like it should get the job done.
    I made a NETDIR.DDL file, DDL'd that to make my VM of the OWS use my serial to USB. I can DDL the original NET.DDL and put the OWS back to the original settings and try using the ethernet card.
    I will remember to put that port to IP before I do all that of course, so the NCM will look at the IP port.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    This is a screen of the original NCM, that I am trying to replace. The setting I am putting in the new one are exactly the same, except the port is 3, not IP. Same IP, Network, and everything else.
    wrong setup ...
    if the archive is on port 3 then the gate and node should be the same as the NCM gate and node... In your case archive gate and node should be 23

    If a NC needs a download and the archive OWS is setup correctly then the download should start as soon as the NC is finished rebooting

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    I made a NETDIR.DDL file, DDL'd that to make my VM of the OWS use my serial to USB. I can DDL the original NET.DDL and put the OWS back to the original settings and try using the ethernet card.
    I will remember to put that port to IP before I do all that of course, so the NCM will look at the IP port.
    When you started PMI with you NETDIR.DDL. Did you see a status box pop up giving the connection status??? Did the status box give you the following messages: "Connecting...." "Updating Global Data" ... "Connected"
    If you didn't get the status box then your net.dd file is not correct
    If you got the status box, but pmi did not connect then your global.ddl is not correct

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozo123 View Post
    wrong setup ...
    if the archive is on port 3 then the gate and node should be the same as the NCM gate and node... In your case archive gate and node should be 23

    If a NC needs a download and the archive OWS is setup correctly then the download should start as soon as the NC is finished rebooting
    Ah so my OWS is on gate 200 node 200. But I need to set the NC to look at himself on gate 23 node 23 so he will get into his own port 3 to root around for his download - where my OWS will be waiting. I can do that.
    My playtime with 1996 technology was postponed to sometime next week.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozo123 View Post
    When you started PMI with you NETDIR.DDL. Did you see a status box pop up giving the connection status??? Did the status box give you the following messages: "Connecting...." "Updating Global Data" ... "Connected"
    If you didn't get the status box then your net.dd file is not correct
    If you got the status box, but pmi did not connect then your global.ddl is not correct
    I got a status box at the middle on the right, saying Connecting.... NC needs a Download... and the NC status in PMI is online. But I do not remember an Updating Global Data message.
    But remember that I am trying to generate a replacement NCM for one that is already on the network at 23 23. So it ??shouldn't?? Need to update the global.ddl file...? I want this one to present as the preexisting one to my VM copy of the OWS and take a download.
    Then, when he demonstrates himself capable of this functionality, I will then change the IP of this replacement one to what the new IP should be. Which is the reason for this whole exercise.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    I got a status box at the middle on the right, saying Connecting.... NC needs a Download... and the NC status in PMI is online. But I do not remember an Updating Global Data message.
    That's right ... your NC needs a download.. so there is no "Updating Global Data" message!!
    I am still concerned about the status "Connecting" . I do not remember if this is normal for a NC that needs a download.. or if it should say "Connected .... NC needs a download"
    I we assume this is normal then you are almost there
    Novram needs to be corrected for Gate and node 23 for the archive.
    PMI is connected .. so there is no need to mess around with ethernet cards, because you already have a connection. Direct connect is better because it will give you the message box, so you can see what is going on.


    [QUOTE=numbawunfela;25850307]But remember that I am trying to generate a replacement NCM for one that is already on the network at 23 23. So it ??shouldn't?? Need to update the global.ddl file...? QUOTE]

    Yes .. you do have to update your global file. The network needs to know that your PC with node and Gate 200 is now a direct connect workstation and no longer a IP connect workstation

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