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  1. #14
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    Sep 2007
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    I should add that of the 2 NCMs I have, one had no NIC card, and the other had an ARCNet card. So I dug around in the pile of crap on the site and found an ethernet card in the ups mailer from when it was EBay'd. So I am also installing a new NIC.
    After I put it in, I power cycled the NCM and it showed me in hyperterminal an IP of 0.0.0.0, which I cannot change from hyperterminal, but the IRQ is good. So it seems like the card takes when mounted.
    I cannot put my laptop to 0.0 0.x, even WinXP does not allow for that in my VM. Cannot ping it, not with any pc - the ip is the likely issue. And as mentioned in the previous post I cannot get WNCSetup to see it either. So I cannot get the IP address changed.
    Any suggestions would be helpful.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  2. #15
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    The IP comes up as 0.0.0.0, but I wiresharked the thing and it also talks on 169.254.120.132.... Windows will not let me set my IP to 0.0.0.x, but I can go to 169.254.120.xxx - so I did that, now I am pinging the thing. I have no mention of this IP anywhere in the documentation, but I do see DHCP requests coming from the NCM on 0.0.0.0 - maybe this is a byproduct of that.
    I believe I need to ddl my Net.ddl file to make my PMI install like the network names that are in the NCM as a default. The 2 suggested network names are WNCSETUP, and JCHDQRT. So I need to figure out how to do that. I have read ddl files for conversions, but I have not ddl'd or unddl'd before.
    Good thing I have a PMI install on a VM to horse around with..... Toying with the customer OWS would be MUCH MUCH more risky.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Kenilworth NJ
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    So I discovered wncsetup stand alone mode. So Fter I figured out how to exit PMI, I got that to work. I then figured out how to ddl my net file to make my install of PMI look to my usb to serial to talk to the NCM. I sat and beat my head against a wall wondering why the dumb thing wouldnt work for 20 minutes before I realized the NULL Model cable was plugged into port 4 and not port 3, as it needed to be and as it was when I did hyperterminal to these things. Ugh... sometimes it happens.
    Around this time my backup arrived who had a laptop from 2003 with him. He showed me how to get it all done. In my defense, I am pretty sure I was almost there, but honestly it took me a day and a half to get to almost there... I am NOT too proud to ask for help. That is why he came around.
    We configured one of the 2 spare NCMs, and scrounged a battery and we are having trouble getting it to consistently ask for a download. So we switched to the 2nd NCM, installed the Ethernet card, and he did not ever ask for a download. So we are back on to the original NCM as it has asked for a download in the past. There is a chance we will not proceed and will put this all off to another day if it does not get much more seamless tomorrow.
    Fun fact, the NCMs have all been up for a long time. The one we are working on has not rebooted in 15 years. But one has been up for 26.45 years... wowee!
    Here is the screenshot.... see the Runtime on the 4th line.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  4. #17
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    The NCM that asked for a download only did so once, and never again, so we pulled the plug on the whole thing. I was posting here regularly to make the thread ping email inboxes and maybe coax a few helpful posters to lend a hand. Turns out I got a PM offering 3 NCMs that were seconds from hitting the dumpster after my last post... which I absolutely do need them - the timing could not have been better!!
    So we are going back to the drawing board until the box with NCMs arrives in a week or so. Thanks The Reaper!!
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  5. Likes The Reaper liked this post.
  6. #18
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    May 2009
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    Customer still OK with this? At a certain point I'd invoke the sunk cost fallacy and move for a replacement/upgrade.

  7. #19
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    Oh yes. We are up to our elbows in another complete upgrade of another building of theirs. So things are moving.
    This old system has 12 or 13 NCMs, with 4 remote sites. So it will take a while for it to all get ripped out. There was some politicking where a certain someone saw their fortunes tied to keeping this stuff in place, which held things up for maybe 5 to 10 years, that was recently dealt with...
    They have no choice at this point but to swallow the cost. The bill for a silly IP change may raise eyebrows, but they see what we are doing and know they have no other options for the short term - not only can they not do this, but when they see us dealing with 90s technology they know it would be hard or impossible to find someone who could do as well, much less better.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  8. #20
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    The NCM that asked for a database was probably configured with a database and now lost it.
    So it is waiting for an operator workstation that is its archive to connect.

    If you want to reconfigure this NC, you first need to put this NC back to factory default. You do this by removing all cards. Put a jumper on the J9 pins and power up the NC. When the NC is running, turn off the power and reinstall the ethernet card

    You can now connect to the NC with WNCsetup with a null modem serial cable connected to port 3, with is the middle port. On login screen the gate = 99 and node = 99. This should get you to the NOVRAM screen
    where you enter all your job related settings

  9. #21
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    Sep 2007
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    Where were you on Monday!?!?! Hehe, no I appreciate the post.
    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    I J9'd them both, so they are at factory defaults. I tried to connect to one of them before I J9'd it with no luck.
    I J9'd them already. And configured the Novram on both, and one asked for a download on the serial port once... but only once... Gate 1 Node 99 it was. (In case an Htalker is reading this later) Both would take Novram configurations just fine. And tell me they was online to the OWS just fine, but no download...
    Stay tuned, I got new NCMs coming Wednesday, so things may get interesting then.
    Last edited by numbawunfela; 03-28-2020 at 01:31 AM.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  10. #22
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    Dec 2019
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    Is the Novram setup correctly?
    You say Gate 1 Node 99... This must be an Arcnet thing. for ethernet it would 99 and 99
    I have no experience with arcnet but have setup over a hundred NCMs with ethernet card

    For ethernet setup Novram as follows
    Gate and Node # must be the same. This is the NC number on your network
    Network: this must be same name as the name in the metasys database
    Code download: I have always used General with OT
    Archive Port: Port 3 (assuming you want to do your download througth the null modem cable. You can always change this later to IP)
    Archive Gate and Node: If port 3 is selected then this must be the same as the NCM Gate and Node address. If using IP this must be the Gate and Node address of the archive OWS
    Baud Rate: most likely 19200

    Next :
    Make sure your net.ddl file is setup correctly for serial communications and compiles with no error. The net.ddl file tells Metasys how your computer will connect to the NC
    Make sure the global.dd file compiles with no error. The global database will introduce all NC's and workstations to each other.
    If your global files compiles with no error, then your workstation knows about all other workstations (if present) and all other NC's, but the NCM still does not know about the Metatys network !!!
    Now you can connect to the NCM with Metasys. Once connected perform a "Global Download". Now the NCM has the global database and knows where to find the Archive workstation and the download should start automatically

  11. #23
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozo123 View Post
    Is the Novram setup correctly?
    You say Gate 1 Node 99... This must be an Arcnet thing. for ethernet it would 99 and 99
    I have no experience with arcnet but have setup over a hundred NCMs with ethernet card

    Make sure the global.dd file compiles with no error. The global database will introduce all NC's and workstations to each other.
    If your global files compiles with no error, then your workstation knows about all other workstations (if present) and all other NC's, but the NCM still does not know about the Metatys network !!!
    Now you can connect to the NCM with Metasys. Once connected perform a "Global Download". Now the NCM has the global database and knows where to find the Archive workstation and the download should start automatically
    Thank you so much for responding! I have a mix of ARCNet and Ethernet NCMs. All the FSC articles say GATE 1 NODE 99... but maybe I was not looking too close. Or maybe that is just what is listed as default, not nclecessarily what it needs to be to run effectively. I do remember, now that you mention it, that all the IP NCMs on the site had matching GATE and NODE #s. The RCNet ones had a GATE 1 of 1 -all matching- and the nodes were sequential like MSTP MAC addresses.

    Also, I know we set the NCM to look to itself on Port 3 for the archive, so we got that right. But doing the global download we definitely did not do. That may explain the lack of a download request.
    I took a VM of the OWS, and am using it to prep things in a safer environment. I do not want to DDL on the OWS if I can avoid it. I am still not comfortable.
    That being the case I needed to redo the NET.DDL. since I got into the NCM at all that part seems right.
    The GLOBAL.DDL needs to change too... I am not sure what needs to change. Maybe after compiling the NET.DDL file the GLOBAL.DDL file picks up what the NET file spits out? I know those files need to be done in a particular order...
    I think you are hearding me in the right direction. Thanks again for posting.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  12. #24
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    East Coast
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    I know it's waaay too late to be helpful but here are my NCM-350 Reload Instructions. I have a 85% + success rate using them to get an NCM to take a download from my PMI laptop.

    A. Reset NCM to factory settings
    1. Turn power off. Unhook battery, remove main cover, remove network card.
    2. Jumper J9
    3. Apply power, allow NCM to go through startup sequence
    4. Remove power. Remove J9.
    5. Apply power. After all LEDs light for 5 seconds, read the NCM address. LEDs 1,2,6,7 light up.

    B. Address the NCM
    --Establishing communication between laptop and NCM
    1. Use null modem cable on NCM port 3 (middle serial port)
    2. Start WNCSETUP (do NOT start PMI)
    3. Enter the default gate number, which is 1
    4. Enter the NC node numer, which is 99 if the NCM has been reset to factory default.
    5. Set baud rate to 19200
    --Setting up the NCM for use on the network
    6. Select Arcnet or Ethernet as appropriate
    7. For an Ethernet NCM
    a. Enter the IP address, subnet mask (255.255.255.0), and network mask (0.0.0.0)
    b. Set the UDP port for the appropriate network
    8. NOVram View and Modify Settings
    a. Enter the appropriate NC gate number. If ethernet, gate is same as NC node number.
    b. Enter the appropriate node number.
    c. Change the network name as appropriate
    d. Set the code download type to "general with NT"
    e. Set the Archive Device Address information
    Choose port 3
    Gate is the NC node number
    NC Node is the node number of the NCM
    No other parameters need to be changed
    9. The NCM will restart. If it does not restart, click the load NCM icon
    10. Close WNCSETUP, connect battery, power off NCM, and install network card
    11. Power up the NCM, start PMI then start WNCSETUP
    12. The NCM should take a download from the laptop

  13. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    I know it's waaay too late to be helpful...
    No, this is very helpful... like I mentioned, there will be a second round.
    You do not need to global download to your NCM?
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  14. #26
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    May 2019
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    Correct, you do not download the GLOBAL.ddl file to the NCM. The Global file defines the nodes on the network and how the tree is built in PMI. PMI needs to know about the NCM but the NCM doesn't necessarily need to know about PMI.

    The DDL manual states that there is a specific order to compile the DDL files. I think it's NET.ddl, GLOBAL.ddl, MODELS.ddl, and then the NCM ddl file. I'll try to swing by the office tomorrow to confirm the order.

    You need to download the NCM ddl file to the node. It defines the points and N2 devices (DCMs, XRLs, VAVs, UNTs etc) that reside in the NCM.

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