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  1. #1
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    WNCSetup - changing IP on JCI NCM

    I have a 911 call center that is still on a Johnson NCM. The municipality that runs the call center wants to change the IP address. The thing has not been touched in 10-15 years, and dates from the mid-late 90s... maybe earlier. I need to know any gotchas or possible hangups that may come from this procedure. Basically the site CANNOT go down, but I am not even sure the thing will reboot as it is so old. There is an OWS at the main government facility that is networked to this thing. All the NCMs I have seen are ARCNet, but I am not sure that this one is ArcNet (80% sure it is - they all are) There is Coax cable all through the facility - there are gateways here and there to convert coax to LAN.

    We have 3 plans -
    A) Download it and all goes well.
    B) There are 2 NCMs that have been left on the ArcNet network but do nothing - they were functionally eliminated as the site conversion progresses. I plan to pull the 911 center offline to the OWS, address one of these spares as the 911 call center, and then take it to the site as a backup/replacement in casa Plan A goes south.
    C) Bring an NAE45 and use it as a backup supervisor just in case. I need to spend some time being sure there is no supervisory logic for the site living on the offsite OWS for Plan C and D.
    D) Bring an AX JACE with an N2 license scrapped from another site and use as a supervisor for the building.


    I have this:

    https://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.c...df/6360175.pdf

    page 112

    and I have some internal JCI training with other helpful details.... I have some old Branch Purchase Packages that include the PMI installation disk and associated software.
    I have done LOTS of HVACPro, and a fair amount of GPL to niagara logic conversion, and plenty of PMI to niagara conversions. I know my way around a PMI site. However, I have never installed or run WNCSetup, or readdressed and NCM. And the first time will be on a 911 call center that cannot go down... typical. So what I need is the first hand gotchas and 'look out for this' kinda stuff that a seasoned pro would know. The seasoned pros would have all retired 10 years ago is my problem....

    There will be A LOT of hellraising over why this is still in a 911 call center when lives are literally on the line. I agree wholeheartedly, and I have voiced all of these - however I would appreciate posts on the topic that answer the questions raised if possible... we can roast the morons who let this happen after the question is answered. The entire system is being converted, and this has not gotten onto that list just yet.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    B) There are 2 NCMs that have been left on the ArcNet network but do nothing - they were functionally eliminated as the site conversion progresses. I plan to pull the 911 center offline to the OWS, address one of these spares as the 911 call center, and then take it to the site as a backup/replacement in casa Plan A goes south.
    B) is what I have done in similar situations. I have a laptop running PMI for things just like this, setup the NCM, downloaded it from the laptop, and had it functional on the bench before putting it in the panel and connecting the N2. Not everyone has the luxury of having a half-dozen 350s sitting around but if you do have a spare, practice on it at a minimum.

    Make absolutely sure that the processes on disk and in the field match exactly. They should have the exact same name and file size. It's my understanding that if you don't have a copy of the processes saved on the disk at the OWS or NC archive, there's no way to get them back from the field. In that case, if something goes wrong and the NCM loses its code, all the programs are gone. If they're different, I wouldn't touch it.

    What I don't understand (and I'm not trying to be critical) is why and how you change the IP address of an ARCnet NCM. I currently have 4 ARCnet 350s left as well as 3 or 4 NCM-200s. They are connected to a Modhub with an ARCnet to Ethernet converter card in it. If you look at my IP addresses in PMI, those 4 NCMs all have the same IP address: 10.10.10.3 which is the IP address of the converter card. They have different gates (setup in winncsetup), which distinguish them. You may get lucky and just need to change the IP of whatever device they're using to convert from ARCnet to Ethernet. That way, you don't need to touch the NCM.

    Hope this helps you...you've helped me out several times.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    What I don't understand (and I'm not trying to be critical) is why and how you change the IP address of an ARCnet NCM. I currently have 4 ARCnet 350s left as well as 3 or 4 NCM-200s. They are connected to a Modhub with an ARCnet to Ethernet converter card in it. If you look at my IP addresses in PMI, those 4 NCMs all have the same IP address: 10.10.10.3 which is the IP address of the converter card. They have different gates (setup in winncsetup), which distinguish them. You may get lucky and just need to change the IP of whatever device they're using to convert from ARCnet to Ethernet. That way, you don't need to touch the NCM.

    Hope this helps you...you've helped me out several times.
    There is a guy onsite that has been passively yet aggressively sabotaging the conversion process - but for political reasons is still around to cause mischief. He will be out to pasture very soon, so as a result we need to wonder if people will die for an IP change... he truly sucks... This means nobody is completely clear on whether there is an ARCNet NCM or not. I was writing up my question and remembering.... 'I do not remember seeing a single Ethernet NCM.... hmmm....' If it is just the gateway I would LUV that - if I can get into it and change it.
    You got any fun tips for that? I have seen one of these from a distance.... Any ideas how to get into one of these? I remember they were hardware that is nominally available for all as long as you have the resources to custom code your ARCNet stack.... So available to almost nobody.
    I just installed Mtools and PMI on my WinXP VM. So I have all the necessary pieces handy. Likely unnecessary as there is an OWS available...

    I am glad I could be of assistance - nobody knows everything. Thank you for responding!!
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  4. #4
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    The Modhub ARCnet to Ethernet processors are fairly easy to get into assuming that’s what they have. Finding the closet that it’s hidden in is probably harder. Contemporary Controls still had the manual on their website the last time I needed to mess with one. You need the right serial cable (I think it’s null modem) and Hyperterminal settings, power it off, hook up your cable, turn it back on, and it boots into your open HT session. Why you have to power it off and disrupt communication is beyond me.

    I never had much luck getting PMI to run on a VM. Or now that I think about it, maybe it was M5 Workstation...something to do with licensing, if I remember right. I’m currently running PMI on Windows 7 but had to use DOSbox to get GPL to work. If you have access to the OWS, you can run diagnostics on the NCM from the Devices group. It will tell you if it’s ARCnet or not. It’ll also tell you how long the thing has been running. Some of mine had been up for over 10 years according to the runtime.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    You need the right serial cable (I think it’s null modem) and Hyperterminal settings, power it off, hook up your cable, turn it back on, and it boots into your open HT session.

    I never had much luck getting PMI to run on a VM.
    That hyper terminal thing is like what I do all day for me, supper duper helpful! Thanks!

    I installed MTools and PMI today, started up like a champ on my winXP VM. Then I remembered why I never did that. I have to put up with the splash screen deciding he is everything I ever wanted or needed in life....
    Starting like a champ is not the same as running like a champ... I will need to try to horse with it a little, restore a backup. I took a VM of the OWS maybe 2 years ago.... I need to Hack the thing every time I get into it as windows on the VM I took decided he is unlicensed... maybe that is why the original box is still XP SP1 with no internet access.... waaa waaaa... hehe
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  6. #6
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    Thinking outside the box could you simply put in a IP router? New IP on the WAN side and old IP on the LAN side. Make the LAN subnet work with the old IP address scheme and declare your existing device IP the DMZ address. Once DMZ declared anything inbound on WAN gets sprayed at the DMZ IP address. Could easily prep a router before you go out and test it for five minutes to see if you have fixed the situation, just need to plug it in and change the OWS IP it is looking for.

  7. #7
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    I found out this NCM has an IP card, not an ARCNet card in it - it is in an offsite location, so I figured it was like this but all the rest are ARCNet...

    Anyhow, that helps a little. That IP router is also a decent plan... what letter am I at right now..... E?

    Hehe - I really appreciate the good feedback.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  8. #8
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    The router is a great idea. Be warned that the Ethernet cards in an NCM-350 will only do 10mgb. You’ll need to make sure your router can go that low or use a switch that can do it. Beat my head against the desk for hours until I figured that out.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Controls_3AE View Post
    The router is a great idea. Be warned that the Ethernet cards in an NCM-350 will only do 10mgb. You’ll need to make sure your router can go that low or use a switch that can do it. Beat my head against the desk for hours until I figured that out.
    And they also run Half Duplex. Haven't touched an NCM in several years but I might recall something now that you've sparked the synapses . Most of the important stuff has been suggested.
    You do have to use WNCSETUP to change the IP address in an NCM350. I believe the address on the ARCnet card are done with the DIP switches on the Card though.
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !
    Stupid should Hurt !
    If people took care of their cars like they do their HVAC Systems you'd see a lot more people walking
    !

  10. #10
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    Memory is a little fuzzy so what I remember may be wrong...
    I remember the global file has the IP address and the NCM350 has the address on the NIC. I also remember the NCM did not like a router changing the IP address because the NIC and the global data had to match for it to work. It was not hard to change the IP but th order of doing it was critical if you want to do it all from the OWS. I remember often having to change it on the OWS and also going to the NCM and changing it with the WNCsetup using the laptop. Sometimes the NCM would need a reload so make sure all the processes and database are uploaded prior to doing anything. (those are separate uploads). Also archive the whole thing. I also unddl the data base after the archive. And if you are lucky enough to have the GPL make a copy of the folders and make another copy on different media. Then upload the processes one more time just to be sure.

    I do not remember the sequence to change the IP without having to reload the NCM. But it is in a JCI document somewhere but with their new online support good luck finding it.

  11. #11
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    Ok guys, the prep has started. The spare NCM has an ARCNet card... the 2 spares on the network are also ARCNet.
    But never fear, I have an Ebayed Ethernet card for an NCM350 sitting in front of me. So I just need to install an ethernet card into an NCM350, and configure it to run.
    I actually have 2 NCMs on the table in front of me aside from the 2 on the network, so I have a few chances for this to go to hell and it will be ok.
    I want to get the going to hell part out of the way before I do this for real tomorrow.
    Again, looking for gotchas or tricks. Something the documentation might not show. I try to put these types of questions up after I have researched some, but I know you all have day jobs so it may take a minute to get back to me. I will post if I have any breakthroughs.
    Thanks in advance!
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  12. #12
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    The runtime on the old one is 5466 days - that is 14.97 years.... Not bad
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  13. #13
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    I have the 2 spare NCMs here. I have connected to both with Hyperterminal and they are telling me about themselves. I hook them up to my laptop or the OWS and run WNCSETUP and I cannot connect to either of these. I J9'd them both, so they are at factory defaults. I tried to connect to one of them before I J9'd it with no luck. It was some Ebayed device with settings from who knows where on it.

    The manual says:
    To configure an NCM that has never been configured, select Gate 1,Node 99, and network name WNCSETUP in the NCM Address Entrydialog box. Click OK. The NCM Setup dialog box appears (Figure 19).
    (Fig 19 says)
    WNCSETUP has detected that this NCM is using the NOVRAMfactory defaults. You have the option to setup the NCM foreither Arcnet or IP (NCM350 only).

    I do the first part, and the second part never happens, instead I get an error:

    Communications Error - Invalid Network Name

    I get the same error when I use the network name JCHDQRTS Which I saw in another place. If I use the existing Network name on the OWS, I get the error:

    Communications Error - Send Failure

    I can connect to other NCMs through the OWS, just not this new one. I have the OWS running to a switch that I spliced into the LAN, and out to the NCMs, including this one.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

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