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  1. #1
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    Jan 2020
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    5 Ton Split AC install questions

    So I took a side job on this weekend putting in a 5 Ton Goodman Split AC w/ matched furnace/air handler. I’m 13hours into the install and have 2 more hours to tidy up, mount TStat, startup & adjust charge. This system will cool a legal grow room year round, so it will be running ICM325HN low ambient condenser fan speed control & crankcase heat. Condensing unit is mounted to a cladlite 3x3 pad, on a damn hill (had to stack 2 treated 2x6’s on low side to make level). Air handler is in basement 8 feet below condensing unit, so I had to penetrate at an upward angle just above the foundation seal plate. I think they call that a part of a house a ‘rim joist’. The fun part was the space constraints of the basement room which called for upflow orientation in a spot where there will be only 12” of supply can height & 6” of return space (open on 4 sides below). I reused a 4” 20x25” filter rack at the return, which leaves 6” of space between the floor & air filter. I reused & modified a supply plenum that’s 21x24.5” by 12” tall. The air opening at top is 24x11” straight out the front. Condensate is gravity drained to a floor drain. Had to build a legs for this air handler out of unistrut, careful not to drill into drain pan or coil. This is a ‘do whatever it takes to make it work as good as you can’ build. I do commercial install & service for my day job.

    The room is 20 feet deep x 12 feet wide with the supply directed down it lengthwise from far side. It will cool 12,000watts of Metal Halide ballasts with LOTS of humidity. Oscillating fans will provide room air mixing.

    I told the client that air distribution would be a concern, as would making sure the huge A coil (piston) had enough air flow over it. I’m going to be using measurequick & manufacturer’s data to calculate target superheat, paying close attention to supply/return Delta T for signs of not enough air flow.

    If the supply plenum has an opening of 24x11” & return filter is 6” off floor open on all 4 sides, do you think it will get enough air flow to deliver close to 5 tons?

    I’ll be adjusting charge tomorrow by target superheat (using the condensing pressure that low ambient condenser fan speed controller maintains + 20degree CTOA split [as my outdoor DB measurement] and [actual indoor WB]... Will get some data & better pics for follow up posts.




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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Medford, N.Y.
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    Its early in the AM, waiting for the coffee to brew, and I think you played Russian Roulette and you did not win.

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  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    PA
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    Air handler turned wrong way for the plenum set up you have. Return will tend to evaporate the water in that drain. The filter will load up quickly being that close to the floor.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...pOv5subqViueDA


    “I told the client that air distribution would be a concern, as would making sure the huge A coil (piston)”


    Goodman says to put in a TXV and freezestat, not a piston. Goodman web-site gives the OEM number to use for the 5 ton system.

    Used the GSX14060 the OEM TXV number is TX5N4

    Is this a AHRI matched system, or its matched because they are both Goodman brand units?

    Field-installed, non-bleed, expansion valve kit — Condensing units and heat pumps with reciprocating compressors require start-assist components when used in conjunction with
    an indoor coil using a non-bleed thermal expansion valve refrigerant metering device.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 01-28-2020 at 08:11 AM.

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  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Portland, OR(Previous: Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma)
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    I live in Portland as well. I only trust VRF when it comes to grow rooms. High heat loads due to lighting and lots of humidity to remove when they are constantly watering plants.

    I wish the best for you and hope you don't get that call of "it's not keeping up".

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

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  9. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    Will a 24 X 11 duct "Be Close"? Good question, should have found out before starting. Add to that a tight bend like that your going to loose more CFM's.

    I hope you at least checked for the proper line size for the lift required.

    That electrical wouldn't cut it here. Where's the lockable disconnect?

    5-Tons in a grow room seems small where's the outside air?

    Is this job Permitted?

    Just telling it like it is:

    Like your other post, as a 3rd year apprentice your not even close to being able to go out on your own. You need a lot more experience that the boss-man pays for!

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  11. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Portland, OR(Previous: Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma)
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Will a 24 X 11 duct "Be Close"? Good question, should have found out before starting. Add to that a tight bend like that your going to loose more CFM's.

    I hope you at least checked for the proper line size for the lift required.

    That electrical wouldn't cut it here. Where's the lockable disconnect?

    5-Tons in a grow room seems small where's the outside air?

    Is this job Permitted?

    Just telling it like it is:

    Like your other post, as a 3rd year apprentice your not even close to being able to go out on your own. You need a lot more experience that the boss-man pays for!
    Portland, Oregon is strict on inspections. It definitely wouldn't cut it in the area he installed. - - it's a "side job" and it's for a grow room, so there wasn't even a chance he was going to pull a permit to begin with



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  13. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Portland Oregon
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    Thread Starter
    I didn’t do electrical on the site - his buddy is electrician and ran 12/2 on a 20amp breaker to indoor and 8/2 on a 40 amp breaker to outdoor unit.

    The guy had the unit & wanted to utilize it rather than a mini split... I prefer mini splits for the modulation that they give. I do a lot of DAIKIN mini splits in VRF installs in my commercial career.


    http://www.thecomfortzone.com/heatin...ifications.pdf

    The condensing unit is VSX130601BC - shipped with 0.086 orfice which is being used. The 7/8” line can accommodate an 8 foot lift (45 degree uprise).

    I know this system is not optimal, and the next system (identical) I will try to setup as down-flow it possible. I’m using the 4” filter rack because I know it will load up the filter like crazy. This has been a learning experience & the client knows I’m a 3rd year apprentice (my Journeymen referred me this job).

    Today I’m putting 6.5lb refrigerant in system & adjusting charge from there. I’ll get SH & SC, Compressor discharge temp & Amp Draw, and Evap delta T to post in follow ups, as well as better pictures.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Southold, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnergyOasis View Post
    I didn’t do electrical on the site - his buddy is electrician and ran 12/2 on a 20amp breaker to indoor and 8/2 on a 40 amp breaker to outdoor unit.

    The guy had the unit & wanted to utilize it rather than a mini split... I prefer mini splits for the modulation that they give. I do a lot of DAIKIN mini splits in VRF installs in my commercial career.


    http://www.thecomfortzone.com/heatin...ifications.pdf

    The condensing unit is VSX130601BC - shipped with 0.086 orfice which is being used. The 7/8” line can accommodate an 8 foot lift (45 degree uprise).

    I know this system is not optimal, and the next system (identical) I will try to setup as down-flow it possible. I’m using the 4” filter rack because I know it will load up the filter like crazy. This has been a learning experience & the client knows I’m a 3rd year apprentice (my Journeymen referred me this job).

    Today I’m putting 6.5lb refrigerant in system & adjusting charge from there. I’ll get SH & SC, Compressor discharge temp & Amp Draw, and Evap delta T to post in follow ups, as well as better pictures.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    http://www.thecomfortzone.com/heatin...ifications.pdf

    Page #3 says 1 1/8"

    7/8" will return oil but with high velocity and loss of capacity.

    I'll guess with the air flow and refrigerant losses your closer to 4-Tons capacity.

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  16. #10
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    Aug 2002
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    Southold, NY
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    With the losses Just weigh in the charge, don't go adjusting very much!

  17. #11
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    Aug 2009
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    Airflow will be a problem. You should have put it horizontal, much better for air in a tight location. It would also get your filter off the floor.

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  19. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
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    Why didn’t you ask these questions before you started the work or took the job on?

    Measure Quick app isn’t going to fix low airflow or undersized line set, or refrigerant migration, or whatever happens to come up as an issue, it might help you identify it but it isn’t going to fix the mistakes or make for a better install by using it. It’s a tool that has limitations like every other tool.

    Legal grow op and they didn’t pull a permit? ...Are you sure about that?


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  21. #13
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    Mar 2015
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    Medford, N.Y.
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    No Sight Glass to verify refrig charge? This is a "side job"? The pot farm sounds like a "side job" as well!

  22. Likes FreeThrowGuy liked this post.
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