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  1. #1
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    Jan 2020
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    How much propane will I save, and my electric bill go up with air heat pump?

    I currently have a 80,000 BTU Lenox Pulse21 propane installed in 1992. My house is 1700 sq.ft.
    The original house was build in 1890, with subsequent add-ons. 95% of the walls were gutted and fiberglass insulation was installed before closing up. I am considering either a Bryant or Trane 60,000 furnace and a 2 or 2.5 ton air heat pump. I have been told that I will save significant propane over the heating season. Some have told me that I could save 25-40% with only a 10% increase in my electric bill. Does this seem right?? I used 270 gal of propane between 10/31/19 and 12/15/19.
    Thanks, John.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    Probably hard to ballpark.

    Where are you? Cost of LP per gallon, cost of juice per kwh?

    We did a lot when natural gas was high selling dual fuel. People did say gas went down noticeably and electricity rise wasn't that great.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfkuehn View Post
    I currently have a 80,000 BTU Lenox Pulse21 propane installed in 1992.

    My house is 1700 sq.ft.
    The original house was build in 1890, with subsequent add-ons.

    95% of the walls were gutted and
    fiberglass insulation was installed before closing up.

    I am considering either a Bryant or Trane 60,000 furnace and a 2 or 2.5 ton air heat pump.

    I have been told that I will save significant propane over the heating season.
    Some have told me that I could save 25-40% with only a 10% increase in my electric bill.

    Does this seem right??

    I used 270 gal of propane between 10/31/19 and 12/15/19.

    Thanks, John.
    ____ NO LOCATION PROVIDED
    ZIP _ _ _ _ _

    ??
    A.C.H. NATURAL 0._ _ data from BLOWER DOOR TEST

    Total Glass Area ___ Sq Feet
    Single, Double or Triple Pane ?

    Total Floor Area ______ Sq. Feet
    Perimeter ____ feet
    Wall Height ___ feet


    R-13 _ Walls
    R-30 _ Ceiling ?
    _____________

    270 gallons in 45 days __
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
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    Where did you get the 60K and either a 2 or 2.5 ton Heat Pump from. Did you do a load calculation? If not here’s a free one.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wxqi0c65CNPb1r

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
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    2
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    ____ NO LOCATION PROVIDED
    [COLOR="#FF0000"][SIZE=3][B] ZIP_49307

    ??
    A.C.H. NATURAL 0._ _ data from BLOWER DOOR TEST

    Total Glass Area _216__ Sq Feet
    Single, Double or Triple Pane ? double

    Total Floor Area _1718_____ Sq. Feet
    Perimeter _296___ feet
    Wall Height _8__ feet


    R-13 _ Walls
    R-30 _ Ceiling
    _____________

    270 gallons in 45 days __

    Hi Dan. I have a spreadsheet with my house data that I hope will help to compute my btu furnace size needed, and size of air heat pump. I can't submit it yet until I have 7 posts. Is there an email address I can send it to you? My email address is Sorry, email addresses are not allowed in post. Please put yours in your profile, thank you..
    Thanks, John.










    My zip code is 49307.

    House Dimensions- January, 2020 Perimeter, Floor Square Footage, and Window Square Footage


    1st Level
    Room Orientation Ceiling Height Dimensions Sq. Ft Per
    LR N +W 8'9" "11x16 + 22x11 418 55 58.4
    DR N+E 8' "16x11 175 41 65.5
    HW N 8 "4.5x11 49.5 5
    K E+S 7'9" "22x11 242 35 29.1
    BathR 7'9" "12x5 60
    HW 7'10" "4x4 + 10.25x4.25 59.5
    BedR sm S 7'10" "8.5x8.5 72.25 15 8.3
    BedR lg S+W 7'10" "10x12 120 37 12.5
    1196.3 188 173.8 1st Level Totals

    2nd Level
    HW stairs S+W 7'10" "13x6 78 17 5.4
    BathR S+W 7'8" "9x4.5 40.5 4 5.4
    Cl 7'10" "9x4 36 5
    HW short 7'10" "8.5x4 34
    BedR front N 7'10" "15x10.5 157.5 42 21.1
    BedR east N+E 7'8" "16x11 176 40 10.5
    522.0 108 42.5 2nd Level Totals

    1718.3 296 216.3 House Totals
    Basement Sq. Footage Perimeter ground/outdoors Window measurements (sq. ft.)
    A room (stone walls 315 6 0
    B room (block wall plus E wall walkpout) 322 33 11.25 BTUs needed = 24000 per 700 sq footage
    C room (block and frame wall) 61.75 22.5 3 Multiplier: 2.45
    totals: 698.75 61.5 14.25 24000 x 2.45 58903 Furnace BTUs Required
    Last edited by beenthere; 01-17-2020 at 05:26 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Athens, Ohio
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    Terminology correction - "heat pump", not "air heat pump."

    As the others have asked, how did you arrive at the sizing of the equipment? A mistake now will plague you for years. Insist on a load calculation and have the duct system assessed.

    You may find that your total utility bill goes down instead of up. Much depends on the rates for gas and electricity.
    I remember a sweet little old lady from years ago who was would show me her utility bills which were bundled in rubber bands. She had us replace her old gas furnace and add a heat pump. I honestly don't remember if the new furnace was 80% or 90%. Her point was, now she had air conditioning, which she didn't have before, but her utilities were $100 LESS than before. Remember, all she had was heating before.
    This is certainly not true in all cases. It was just nice to have a customer who was pleased to get more than she expected.
    AOP Rules: Rules For Equipment Owners.

    Free online load calculator: http://www.loadcalc.net/


    There = not here. Their = possessive pronoun. They're = they are
    It's = contraction of it is. Its = the possessive form of it
    Too = also. To = expressing motion. Two = 2
    Then = after that, next. Than = indicates a comparison.
    Questions should end with a question mark "?" Statements end with a period "."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
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    Heating: 55,000 BTU/Hr at 4'F +/- 17%
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    The Beach
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    Same here I have pulled out the gas unit. And put in a heat pump and the heating bill goes down. Even if the strips are used some times.
    Blue Fox

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by lentz View Post

    Same here I have pulled out the gas unit.

    And put in a heat pump and the heating bill goes down.
    Even if the strips are used some times.
    Overall operating cost may be reduced
    ONLY IF " the gas "
    refers to PROPANE Gas [LP] ( not Natural Gas).

    OR IF Natural Gas $$$'s are excessive at some locale.

    ______________ _________
    Somewhat typical energy costs:

    $ 0.11 / kw-hr
    29.308 kw-hr / Therm
    $ 3.223 / Therm Straight Electric
    C.O.P. Average ~ 3.3 for > 32'F
    $0.977 / Therm Heat Pump

    $ 2.00 / gallon LP /
    _______ 92,000 BTU / 90% AFUE
    $ 2.415 / THERM LP

    LP / Heat Pump = 2.47

    $ 0.800 / THERM N.G.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

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