Attracting great talent to mom and pop (Georgia)

[pageyjim]

It seems to me that you are looking for a rare person. Most people I know when they are proficient at both install and being a technician want to put the install days behind them. Most people I know wouldn't accept a position like that and if they were going to consider it they would have to make more money than the other jobs that they could get.
How would the on call work for that person? A good trade might be if they had no on call. If they even split it with you that would not be something most would consider. Even if there are no after hour calls it is still a pita to be on call that much.

[pageyjim]

If you can't find anybody to stay with you for any length of time when do you think it might be appropriate to look at what you are doing?

[joemach]

Have you tried temp agencies? I am in a similar boat as you, except that I do not quite have enough work for a guy full time. But what I do is hire through a temp agency. Sometimes you get lucky a get a guy that wants to work and wants a career in this trade. Just need to offer a decent wage to attract a better class of worker. They come to work drug and background tested.

I got a guy from a temp agency that worked with me for a few months. He was pretty good at following directions and getting things done. When things got slow he had to move on to keep working. He even calls me when things get slow where he went to. If I have an install or replacement I put him to work. After a while there are certain things I can turn him loose on and know that it will be done to my standard.

There are guys out there that want to work. And want to learn a trade. Give them a try and see what to get. Hopefully you will get lucky.

There is also a company called Tradesman International. I have used them for temp guys that were fully qualified techs. Some better than me, I had to get out of their way.

One problem I see for you and me is that we are both quite anal on installs and replacements. You and I have to let some of that go if we expect to grow at all. It can't be personal anymore. No one will do it like the owner.

Nice thing about using temps is they handle all the paperwork SUTA, FUTA, FICA, Comp. But you have to use them for a length of time before you can hire them direct. Hey, if they do a great job you can always throw them a bonus.

Just my random thoughts.

[chrisevansac]

It seems to me that you are looking for a rare person. Most people I know when they are proficient at both install and being a technician want to put the install days behind them. Most people I know wouldn't accept a position like that and if they were going to consider it they would have to make more money than the other jobs that they could get.
How would the on call work for that person? A good trade might be if they had no on call. If they even split it with you that would not be something most would consider. Even if there are no after hour calls it is still a pita to be on call that much.

Rarely have any after hours calls. It would be more like hey Ms Smith the lady we installed that unit for last week is having a problem can you run over there and check it out. I always try to push the after hour calls to the next day I just can’t see how something at 9 o’clock can’t wait till the next day here in Georgia nothing too cold and in the summer you can get by at night time for sure.


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[chrisevansac]

If you can't find anybody to stay with you for any length of time when do you think it might be appropriate to look at what you are doing?

I contemplate this a lot this is why I am here talking to you guys I need advice and I also am open to scrutiny on my part


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[chrisevansac]

Have you tried temp agencies? I am in a similar boat as you, except that I do not quite have enough work for a guy full time. But what I do is hire through a temp agency. Sometimes you get lucky a get a guy that wants to work and wants a career in this trade. Just need to offer a decent wage to attract a better class of worker. They come to work drug and background tested.

I got a guy from a temp agency that worked with me for a few months. He was pretty good at following directions and getting things done. When things got slow he had to move on to keep working. He even calls me when things get slow where he went to. If I have an install or replacement I put him to work. After a while there are certain things I can turn him loose on and know that it will be done to my standard.

There are guys out there that want to work. And want to learn a trade. Give them a try and see what to get. Hopefully you will get lucky.

There is also a company called Tradesman International. I have used them for temp guys that were fully qualified techs. Some better than me, I had to get out of their way.

One problem I see for you and me is that we are both quite anal on installs and replacements. You and I have to let some of that go if we expect to grow at all. It can't be personal anymore. No one will do it like the owner.

Nice thing about using temps is they handle all the paperwork SUTA, FUTA, FICA, Comp. But you have to use them for a length of time before you can hire them direct. Hey, if they do a great job you can always throw them a bonus.

Just my random thoughts.

I’ve never tried the temp agency route I’ve always thought I could do it without it but sounds like a great idea where are you located because in Georgia the temp agencies that I have dealt with seem to only give you bottom of the barrel type people


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[pageyjim]

Rarely have any after hours calls. It would be more like hey Ms Smith the lady we installed that unit for last week is having a problem can you run over there and check it out. I always try to push the after hour calls to the next day I just can’t see how something at 9 o’clock can’t wait till the next day here in Georgia nothing too cold and in the summer you can get by at night time for sure.


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That was what I expected to hear but it is a pain to be on call even with that. If it is that easy then it seems to me that you would take care of it. I think the most to ask an employee to be on call is one week per month.

[joemach]

I’ve never tried the temp agency route I’ve always thought I could do it without it but sounds like a great idea where are you located because in Georgia the temp agencies that I have dealt with seem to only give you bottom of the barrel type people


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I am near Penn State - State College, PA

You may have to do some shopping around for a temp agency that deals with a higher class of worker. I use Express Employment. Their headquarters is in Atlanta. So should be a few offices there.

[pageyjim]

If you find someone that fits your stated needs that would be great but I think that will be hard unless you offer them more than they could get otherwise. I still believe that no on call or just a few weeks a year to cover you might be it if you can match everything else otherwise.

Your best bet might be to get an installer that wants to make the jump to service. You would get help with installs and train them to do maint and service. After a couple years of that you would probably have to pay them what they could get elsewhere or they might want to jump with their expanded knowledge and experience. Most owners resent this and many times say that they taught them everything they know. Which is the worst thing to say imo.

[chrisevansac]

That was what I expected to hear but it is a pain to be on call even with that. If it is that easy then it seems to me that you would take care of it. I think the most to ask an employee to be on call is one week per month.

I usually do handle anything odd and weekend calls I feel bad for asking anybody to do that after they’re already at home with your feet propped up or spending time with their family so I’ve never been one to do that the rare occasion that I have is when I am truly out of commission or can’t get to it faster so I may ask. Most days that we leave early because we have finish the work or don’t have anything else to do I still pay the guys eight hours its give-and-take relationship if we leave early you still get eight if I need you in a pinch I expect it to go both ways


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[chesehd]

Have you considered contacting the Veteran Affairs office and looking for recently separating service members? I know the Navy and Air Force have HVAC schools and I'd be willing to make a safe bet that the Army does as well.

King's Bay isn't all that far away and I'm reasonably confident that you would find the work ethic you're looking for from most vets.

Good hunting!

Ken

[chrisevansac]

Have you considered contacting the Veteran Affairs office and looking for recently separating service members? I know the Navy and Air Force have HVAC schools and I'd be willing to make a safe bet that the Army does as well.

King's Bay isn't all that far away and I'm reasonably confident that you would find the work ethic you're looking for from most vets.

Good hunting!

Ken

No that is a good idea I will look into that for sure


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[BALloyd]

Couple thoughts.....

You are going to have a really tough time getting a top notch older guy at a small mom and pop operation for many reasons already mentioned. In addition many of those guys will be opening their own mom and pop instead of working for you. I think you would need to poach a worker of that caliber with some kind of part ownership incentive.

Now you are more likely to find top notch younger guy, but they will more than likely move on after 5 years or less as I believe they will just get plain bored with the work. This is ok if you understand what you are both bringing to the table and what you are both getting out of it. Again you might get them to stay if part ownership is on the table at the 4-5 year mark, but this guy would have to be pretty special.

I would suggest trying to poach some young electrical apprentices that have service experience, not the install wire pullers. Electrical troubleshooting is such a big part of our trade that you need to be good at it to be successful unless all you do is big installs every day. I know a lot of HVAC/R guys that used to be electricians.

Or find some farm boys or fishermen that actually know what tough work is...and see if they have the smarts to do the job. You won't have to worry about work ethic with them.

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[chrisevansac]

Couple thoughts.....

You are going to have a really tough time getting a top notch older guy at a small mom and pop operation for many reasons already mentioned. In addition many of those guys will be opening their own mom and pop instead of working for you. I think you would need to poach a worker of that caliber with some kind of part ownership incentive.

Now you are more likely to find top notch younger guy, but they will more than likely move on after 5 years or less as I believe they will just get plain bored with the work. This is ok if you understand what you are both bringing to the table and what you are both getting out of it. Again you might get them to stay if part ownership is on the table at the 4-5 year mark, but this guy would have to be pretty special.

I would suggest trying to poach some young electrical apprentices that have service experience, not the install wire pullers. Electrical troubleshooting is such a big part of our trade that you need to be good at it to be successful unless all you do is big installs every day. I know a lot of HVAC/R guys that used to be electricians.

Or find some farm boys or fishermen that actually know what tough work is...and see if they have the smarts to do the job. You won't have to worry about work ethic with them.

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I appreciate your input. Most larger companies in my area and in residential are producing sales techs. The pay is relatively low or the same. 50% of their income is commissions. Installers are paid by the piece or the job. These are the big boys. The only attraction to big companies I see is they are established and the name is known. The work is the same. So the established company look more appealing and steady?


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[chrisevansac]

Speaking of is this your experience even at the larger companies with guys staying 4 to 5 years and venturing out to start their own business


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[pageyjim]

Speaking of is this your experience even at the larger companies with guys staying 4 to 5 years and venturing out to start their own business


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I have seen it at both big and small businesses but probably at a much higher average with the smaller shops. If a guy is installing and doing service and taking on calls they probably think why not because they are doing it all anyways. In larger companies where they are running just service many do not want to do install anymore.

[chrisevansac]

I have seen it at both big and small businesses but probably at a much higher average with the smaller shops. If a guy is installing and doing service and taking on calls they probably think why not because they are doing it all anyways. In larger companies where they are running just service many do not want to do install anymore.

Good point I can tell you from personal experience the downside of running your own business or as you say working for a small business and doing it all is you feel like there is way more responsibility on your shoulders than should be and you feel bad for wanting to take a week or two off for vacation with the family or you almost feel like you have to be married to the company because you’re such a huge part of the business. If you’re with a larger company the responsibility feels a lot less and you feel like you can take some time off or take a day off here and there because you’re one of 10 or 20 or 30 who can cover when you leave or when you take off


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[Greg Lykens]

I understand what you are going through. I had a son that helped me. I just sold my business in PA and moved to SC after being in the trade for 31 years, 19 as an owner.

Look, you have to pay more. That is the bottom line. That is why the trade is so short of help. You can't start out guys at 12 bucks when Micky Dee's is paying 15 and benefits and sometimes, tuition. So you have to charge more, or just plod along like your doing.

Having 5 to 7 guys wasn't better for my bottom line than having just 2 after 2011. My bottom line was much better, but my gross looked bad compared to 7 guys. But in the end it was money, so I just worked smarter ( I used apps, computers and paperless invoicing, along with mobile banking, taking a lot of Credit cards, etc) and banked the extra money.

Most times, although not all, after hour call were easily put off to the next day. You just have to have a good clientele and train them.

I thought I would never do HVAC again. After 3 months I miss it. I'm going to get my SC HVAC licence next month and start up another small shop. Seems like here in SC, there is a serious lack of people doing the trades.

Good luck to you in the future brother.

[chrisevansac]

I understand what you are going through. I had a son that helped me. I just sold my business in PA and moved to SC after being in the trade for 31 years, 19 as an owner.

Look, you have to pay more. That is the bottom line. That is why the trade is so short of help. You can't start out guys at 12 bucks when Micky Dee's is paying 15 and benefits and sometimes, tuition. So you have to charge more, or just plod along like your doing.

Having 5 to 7 guys wasn't better for my bottom line than having just 2 after 2011. My bottom line was much better, but my gross looked bad compared to 7 guys. But in the end it was money, so I just worked smarter ( I used apps, computers and paperless invoicing, along with mobile banking, taking a lot of Credit cards, etc) and banked the extra money.

Most times, although not all, after hour call were easily put off to the next day. You just have to have a good clientele and train them.

I thought I would never do HVAC again. After 3 months I miss it. I'm going to get my SC HVAC licence next month and start up another small shop. Seems like here in SC, there is a serious lack of people doing the trades.

Good luck to you in the future brother.

Thanks for your input. I agree the answer is pay more and get better. Hire slow and offer big. I agree the bottom line is all that matters. I desire to be a valuable part of the commerce here in Georgia. Responsible employer that members of the community rely on for jobs and people rely on for good service. I enjoy sharing my talent the only way I know how. As far as attracting good people it seems to me the rough necks with good hard skills lack the soft skills needed and the pretty boys with good soft skills don’t want to get dirty. Customers want the pretty boy to show up and know how to fix the problem.


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[Greg Lykens]

Thanks for your input. I agree the answer is pay more and get better. Hire slow and offer big. I agree the bottom line is all that matters. I desire to be a valuable part of the commerce here in Georgia. Responsible employer that members of the community rely on for jobs and people rely on for good service. I enjoy sharing my talent the only way I know how. As far as attracting good people it seems to me the rough necks with good hard skills lack the soft skills needed and the pretty boys with good soft skills don’t want to get dirty. Customers want the pretty boy to show up and know how to fix the problem.


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I think that is a good way of putting it.