Buying tools

[Fred Raud]

I was working in the rain yesterday on a rack system. Watching my meter get soaked with water and kept thinking about this thread. I really need a new meter.

[mgenius33]

Start your own company and never beg for tools again. I have better tools now than I ever had while working for a company. This includes the rarely used company owned community tools that remain in the shop. Every time I use my new Ridgid power threader, I think to myself, “WTF was my last employer thinking by making us do this by hand?” That company went through threader dies like crazy.
I’ve probably invested $20k in the past couple years and don’t blink an eye. High quality tools can provide more accurate diagnostics, save time and money. When you fix that system that 5 other big named companies couldn’t, you get your name out there. So, basically I’m saying the tools pay for themselves.
At this point I see a tool that I think will save me time/money, I buy it, no approval needed. Okay, that’s a lie, my wife has to be conferred with on tools over $1k, but she rarely disagrees so long as it will benefit the work, and it’s not just to play with.

[BALloyd]

Credit. I own every tool in my van except the recovery machine. I feel like it’s an investment. If I ever get fed up and leave I can take it all somewhere else.

If you bought the van too you wouldn't even have to unload if you got fed up...just drive away.

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[heatingman]

I'm not so sure I would have the guts to ask my employer for a replacement tool if it's my clumsiness or misuse of it that made it fail.

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Thats no different then a person taking a fall on a job. Clumsiness or not, the company should be paying for it.




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[shellkamp]

Thats no different then a person taking a fall on a job. Clumsiness or not, the company should be paying for it.




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That's where I disagree (depending on the circumstances). If I give you training to work safely and you choose to ignore that training, directly resulting in your injury, then I should not be liable as an employer.

If I did not give you training and you have plausible deniability that you knew better, then that's on me.

If you break your tools because you're not using them properly or are negligent in their storage, I can't justify buying you new ones since you clearly don't know how to treat the ones you broke.

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[Achso017]

If you bought the van too you wouldn't even have to unload if you got fed up...just drive away.

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One of these years my friend, one of these years. Unfortunately the cost to put a shingle out front is quite high.


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[heatingman]

That's where I disagree (depending on the circumstances). If I give you training to work safely and you choose to ignore that training, directly resulting in your injury, then I should not be liable as an employer.

If I did not give you training and you have plausible deniability that you knew better, then that's on me.

If you break your tools because you're not using them properly or are negligent in their storage, I can't justify buying you new ones since you clearly don't know how to treat the ones you broke.

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Safety training absolves a company from almost nothing. You have to prove negligence.

Regardless Im not talking about abuse of tools. You have someone coming to you alot for tools that broke, something is up. You have a guy thats worked for you for years and asks you to replace a tool that broke in the course of making you money, and you refuse, then thats just you being greedy.

Cost of tools is part of the cost of business. The reason you make more then the guy doing the work, is the assumed risk.

If you want no risk, then stop running a business.



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[JeffWil]

That's where I disagree (depending on the circumstances). If I give you training to work safely and you choose to ignore that training, directly resulting in your injury, then I should not be liable as an employer.

If I did not give you training and you have plausible deniability that you knew better, then that's on me.

If you break your tools because you're not using them properly or are negligent in their storage, I can't justify buying you new ones since you clearly don't know how to treat the ones you broke.

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I'd have to disagree with you on your stance, do you allow your technician the time to go home or to the shop to retrieve a tool needed because it's hot or cold in the van?
Negligent storage per manufacturer stances would hit us all in the pocket as many of them would say the temperatures in our vans are not conducive to the proper operating ranges and storage
And as to getting hurt on the job, tools damaged on the job, do you pay your guys to stay home when it rains, when it's extremely hot outside, or cold?
Accidents happen, tools get damaged
If I worked for someone that laid those claims, my tools wouldn't leave my van as it's on me to buy them and I wouldn't put the money into damaging my tools to make you the money so I could buy more tools because I have to use them for what I'm doing for a living.

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[mgenius33]

One of these years my friend, one of these years. Unfortunately the cost to put a shingle out front is quite high.


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Why not this year? If money is in the way now, it’s always going to be in the way. I started with a tiny Nissan Frontier with a camper shell, but I knew where I wanted to go. If you are ambitious, have good knowledge of the trade, and have a good work ethic, there’s no stopping you, but YOU...
Trust me, and the other’s that run their own show... you’ll never look back, you’ll only ask yourself why the hell did I wait so long???

[ga-hvac-tech]

IMO... the important thing in hanging out ones own shingle...
Have some $$$ put away to live on... as the company will probably not provide much more than pocket change for a year or so...
The other thing...
Running a business is a different skill than doing the work (in this case: HVAC/R)...
Learn the basics of how to run a business BEFORE you go out on your own!

[shellkamp]

I'd have to disagree with you on your stance, do you allow your technician the time to go home or to the shop to retrieve a tool needed because it's hot or cold in the van?
Negligent storage per manufacturer stances would hit us all in the pocket as many of them would say the temperatures in our vans are not conducive to the proper operating ranges and storage
And as to getting hurt on the job, tools damaged on the job, do you pay your guys to stay home when it rains, when it's extremely hot outside, or cold?
Accidents happen, tools get damaged
If I worked for someone that laid those claims, my tools wouldn't leave my van as it's on me to buy them and I wouldn't put the money into damaging my tools to make you the money so I could buy more tools because I have to use them for what I'm doing for a living.

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I think you're taking what I'm saying to an illogical end.

But rest assured, this is only my opinion, and I'm not a business owner, just a manager. I have zero power to change the workman's comp rules as they are, and I abide by them as they should be.

I have zero problem replacing tools if I said "hey, I know it's pouring out but I need you to do this repair and get the customer online again." And it results in their meter getting fried.

I had boundaries where I wouldn't do something that would adversely affect my investment in tools or my health. My employer respects this and I give the same respect to my technicians now that I'm their manager. If they tell me it's raining and they're about to go up on the roof and work on 460V equipment, I'll tell them to stay the Hell off the roof and standby.

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[shellkamp]

Safety training absolves a company from almost nothing. You have to prove negligence.

Regardless Im not talking about abuse of tools. You have someone coming to you alot for tools that broke, something is up. You have a guy thats worked for you for years and asks you to replace a tool that broke in the course of making you money, and you refuse, then thats just you being greedy.

Cost of tools is part of the cost of business. The reason you make more then the guy doing the work, is the assumed risk.

If you want no risk, then stop running a business.



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Yes, this is what I was saying, I don't think your negligence should make me liable for your tool replacement, but if you wear your shit out making me big bucks then sure, that's reasonable.

I understand how the workman's comp system works, I just personally don't agree with the lack of personal responsibility on the employees part.

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[Achso017]

Why not this year? If money is in the way now, it’s always going to be in the way. I started with a tiny Nissan Frontier with a camper shell, but I knew where I wanted to go. If you are ambitious, have good knowledge of the trade, and have a good work ethic, there’s no stopping you, but YOU...
Trust me, and the other’s that run their own show... you’ll never look back, you’ll only ask yourself why the hell did I wait so long???

The thing is, I know you’re right. Everyone I know says I should. Right now it’s just me and the guy who owns the business. He’s at retirement age and has failing health so I feel like I should wait until he does retire. I feel obligated to help him since he helped me in the past. It’s also scary to consider starting with no customers and an immense advertising bill. I see what he spends on advertising and I see how few calls we have been getting over the past six months or so and I worry that I wouldn’t fair much better.


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[ga-hvac-tech]

The thing is, I know you’re right. Everyone I know says I should. Right now it’s just me and the guy who owns the business. He’s at retirement age and has failing health so I feel like I should wait until he does retire. I feel obligated to help him since he helped me in the past. It’s also scary to consider starting with no customers and an immense advertising bill. I see what he spends on advertising and I see how few calls we have been getting over the past six months or so and I worry that I wouldn’t fair much better.


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IMO...

Giving every customer 125% of what they expected...
Always being respectful and polite...
Always making sure the customer is satisfied...
And of course pricing so you make a reasonable living (not get rich in a decade)...

And word of mouth will build you a clientel you will be happy to take care of!
AND...
You will not need to advertise...
As your customers will refer you to their friends/family!

If you want to boost business... offer 1 or 2 C notes for a referral that results in a closed sale, happy customer, that is paid for in full...

We have not advertised since the first year in HVAC... around the turn of the century.

Is there a chance you will get the old man's business... or at least some of his customers???

[JeffWil]

Yes, this is what I was saying, I don't think your negligence should make me liable for your tool replacement, but if you wear your shit out making me big bucks then sure, that's reasonable.

I understand how the workman's comp system works, I just personally don't agree with the lack of personal responsibility on the employees part.

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That I can agree with.

I like that my employer takes care of me and my tools. Like a combustion analyzer getting sent in for recalibration. And replacing my drill if it goes out after 3-4 years of use.


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[Achso017]

IMO...

Giving every customer 125% of what they expected...
Always being respectful and polite...
Always making sure the customer is satisfied...
And of course pricing so you make a reasonable living (not get rich in a decade)...

And word of mouth will build you a clientel you will be happy to take care of!
AND...
You will not need to advertise...
As your customers will refer you to their friends/family!

If you want to boost business... offer 1 or 2 C notes for a referral that results in a closed sale, happy customer, that is paid for in full...

We have not advertised since the first year in HVAC... around the turn of the century.

Is there a chance you will get the old man's business... or at least some of his customers???

It’s all good advice. I’ve seen that happen sometimes with our customers, but I’ve seen us lose customers. Pricing is a sensitive topic to ask about. I know most of what is paid for bills and advertising but I still think we charge to much for most things.

I don’t know if he’ll try and sell his business or what. He doesn’t seem to really want to retire but his health is seriously declining (both physically and mentally) and to be honest he’s lost so many good customers the past year and a half that I’m not sure how many he’ll have left when he retires.


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[ga-hvac-tech]

Yes, there are always folks that chase price... not understanding they are making a mistake...
All one can do is continue to do a good job for them and let them learn the hard way...
Or not learn...

We have some calls like that...
GREAT, long term customer; refers someone to us that is a cheapskate...
IMO just part of running a business.

In the larger picture...
We have built a business of quality customers...
And most of the referrals, are folks that have already decided who they want to do the work...
All they need is someone to explain the details and give them a price.

[smartmahabub]

I probably brought a few hundred dillars worth but I should have started the payment recipe. Basically you brought it once and if it screws up, the company will replace it, I like it better because I basically keep everything if I ever leave.

[mgenius33]

From my POV your boss can take it or leave it because he doesn’t have 20+ years still to work. It’s his business and he can do what he pleases and take whatever jobs for whatever price.

Lower volume higher profit is always the goal especially as the years add up. If you’re still young ~30-40 age range then you may be wondering why someone would let work walk away right in front of you? If you’re near retirement and don’t need to build your nest egg you’ll become more selective. Don’t think he doesn’t know that he’s on the decline, he just may not want to admit it. Who would?

If you’re serious then have a talk with him. You will need to be selective with your choice of words as not to offend him.
Maybe ask him what his goals are in the next 5-10 years. Tell him, someday you want to run a business. Don’t forget to compliment and ask him for advice. Ask him what he suggest you do when he retires.

Don’t look to take his business unless he’s asking you to. He can run it into the ground if he wants, but you’re the one left in the street if that happens. You can’t worry about what he’s doing, worry about your future.

In any case, you’ll still have a year to learn and grow. So, don’t wait another 5 years to see the business you’re working for get swallowed up. You could be looking back in 5 years saying, damn I’m glad I did it!

Hell, he may not even know you’re interested in taking over. He might make a deal to take profits without working for several years as a buyout plan. You never know til you ask. Just remember, nobody cares more about you and your family than YOU.

I drive past some of my old employers install crew trucks, and think damn they’re still making the boss rich!!! Meanwhile they’re killing themselves after 20 years of hard work, still trying to figure out how to pay for new tools.

[Wheelbaron]

I like to have my own tools for several reasons. First off my tool bag is a mad mashed mix of brands, styles and home made tools that I have honed over the years to exactly what I like. Second, if I break, loose, abuse, or modify my tools that's on me and I don't owe anyone an explanation. Third, Im a tool addict, and I need to feed my addiction, I doubt any co out there would let me get three different kinds of wire strippers just to try them out. Company has to pay for consumables, but the tools those consumables go in are mine, and you better keep your dirty fingers off them! lol