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Thread: Buying tools

  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    That's where I disagree (depending on the circumstances). If I give you training to work safely and you choose to ignore that training, directly resulting in your injury, then I should not be liable as an employer.

    If I did not give you training and you have plausible deniability that you knew better, then that's on me.

    If you break your tools because you're not using them properly or are negligent in their storage, I can't justify buying you new ones since you clearly don't know how to treat the ones you broke.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    Safety training absolves a company from almost nothing. You have to prove negligence.

    Regardless Im not talking about abuse of tools. You have someone coming to you alot for tools that broke, something is up. You have a guy thats worked for you for years and asks you to replace a tool that broke in the course of making you money, and you refuse, then thats just you being greedy.

    Cost of tools is part of the cost of business. The reason you make more then the guy doing the work, is the assumed risk.

    If you want no risk, then stop running a business.



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  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    That's where I disagree (depending on the circumstances). If I give you training to work safely and you choose to ignore that training, directly resulting in your injury, then I should not be liable as an employer.

    If I did not give you training and you have plausible deniability that you knew better, then that's on me.

    If you break your tools because you're not using them properly or are negligent in their storage, I can't justify buying you new ones since you clearly don't know how to treat the ones you broke.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    I'd have to disagree with you on your stance, do you allow your technician the time to go home or to the shop to retrieve a tool needed because it's hot or cold in the van?
    Negligent storage per manufacturer stances would hit us all in the pocket as many of them would say the temperatures in our vans are not conducive to the proper operating ranges and storage
    And as to getting hurt on the job, tools damaged on the job, do you pay your guys to stay home when it rains, when it's extremely hot outside, or cold?
    Accidents happen, tools get damaged
    If I worked for someone that laid those claims, my tools wouldn't leave my van as it's on me to buy them and I wouldn't put the money into damaging my tools to make you the money so I could buy more tools because I have to use them for what I'm doing for a living.

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achso017 View Post
    One of these years my friend, one of these years. Unfortunately the cost to put a shingle out front is quite high.


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    Why not this year? If money is in the way now, it’s always going to be in the way. I started with a tiny Nissan Frontier with a camper shell, but I knew where I wanted to go. If you are ambitious, have good knowledge of the trade, and have a good work ethic, there’s no stopping you, but YOU...
    Trust me, and the other’s that run their own show... you’ll never look back, you’ll only ask yourself why the hell did I wait so long???
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates

  5. #30
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    IMO... the important thing in hanging out ones own shingle...
    Have some $$$ put away to live on... as the company will probably not provide much more than pocket change for a year or so...
    The other thing...
    Running a business is a different skill than doing the work (in this case: HVAC/R)...
    Learn the basics of how to run a business BEFORE you go out on your own!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWil View Post
    I'd have to disagree with you on your stance, do you allow your technician the time to go home or to the shop to retrieve a tool needed because it's hot or cold in the van?
    Negligent storage per manufacturer stances would hit us all in the pocket as many of them would say the temperatures in our vans are not conducive to the proper operating ranges and storage
    And as to getting hurt on the job, tools damaged on the job, do you pay your guys to stay home when it rains, when it's extremely hot outside, or cold?
    Accidents happen, tools get damaged
    If I worked for someone that laid those claims, my tools wouldn't leave my van as it's on me to buy them and I wouldn't put the money into damaging my tools to make you the money so I could buy more tools because I have to use them for what I'm doing for a living.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    I think you're taking what I'm saying to an illogical end.

    But rest assured, this is only my opinion, and I'm not a business owner, just a manager. I have zero power to change the workman's comp rules as they are, and I abide by them as they should be.

    I have zero problem replacing tools if I said "hey, I know it's pouring out but I need you to do this repair and get the customer online again." And it results in their meter getting fried.

    I had boundaries where I wouldn't do something that would adversely affect my investment in tools or my health. My employer respects this and I give the same respect to my technicians now that I'm their manager. If they tell me it's raining and they're about to go up on the roof and work on 460V equipment, I'll tell them to stay the Hell off the roof and standby.

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  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatingman View Post
    Safety training absolves a company from almost nothing. You have to prove negligence.

    Regardless Im not talking about abuse of tools. You have someone coming to you alot for tools that broke, something is up. You have a guy thats worked for you for years and asks you to replace a tool that broke in the course of making you money, and you refuse, then thats just you being greedy.

    Cost of tools is part of the cost of business. The reason you make more then the guy doing the work, is the assumed risk.

    If you want no risk, then stop running a business.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, this is what I was saying, I don't think your negligence should make me liable for your tool replacement, but if you wear your shit out making me big bucks then sure, that's reasonable.

    I understand how the workman's comp system works, I just personally don't agree with the lack of personal responsibility on the employees part.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgenius33 View Post
    Why not this year? If money is in the way now, itís always going to be in the way. I started with a tiny Nissan Frontier with a camper shell, but I knew where I wanted to go. If you are ambitious, have good knowledge of the trade, and have a good work ethic, thereís no stopping you, but YOU...
    Trust me, and the otherís that run their own show... youíll never look back, youíll only ask yourself why the hell did I wait so long???
    The thing is, I know youíre right. Everyone I know says I should. Right now itís just me and the guy who owns the business. Heís at retirement age and has failing health so I feel like I should wait until he does retire. I feel obligated to help him since he helped me in the past. Itís also scary to consider starting with no customers and an immense advertising bill. I see what he spends on advertising and I see how few calls we have been getting over the past six months or so and I worry that I wouldnít fair much better.


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  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achso017 View Post
    The thing is, I know youíre right. Everyone I know says I should. Right now itís just me and the guy who owns the business. Heís at retirement age and has failing health so I feel like I should wait until he does retire. I feel obligated to help him since he helped me in the past. Itís also scary to consider starting with no customers and an immense advertising bill. I see what he spends on advertising and I see how few calls we have been getting over the past six months or so and I worry that I wouldnít fair much better.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    IMO...

    Giving every customer 125% of what they expected...
    Always being respectful and polite...
    Always making sure the customer is satisfied...
    And of course pricing so you make a reasonable living (not get rich in a decade)...

    And word of mouth will build you a clientel you will be happy to take care of!
    AND...
    You will not need to advertise...
    As your customers will refer you to their friends/family!

    If you want to boost business... offer 1 or 2 C notes for a referral that results in a closed sale, happy customer, that is paid for in full...

    We have not advertised since the first year in HVAC... around the turn of the century.

    Is there a chance you will get the old man's business... or at least some of his customers???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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  12. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    Yes, this is what I was saying, I don't think your negligence should make me liable for your tool replacement, but if you wear your shit out making me big bucks then sure, that's reasonable.

    I understand how the workman's comp system works, I just personally don't agree with the lack of personal responsibility on the employees part.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    That I can agree with.

    I like that my employer takes care of me and my tools. Like a combustion analyzer getting sent in for recalibration. And replacing my drill if it goes out after 3-4 years of use.


    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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  14. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    IMO...

    Giving every customer 125% of what they expected...
    Always being respectful and polite...
    Always making sure the customer is satisfied...
    And of course pricing so you make a reasonable living (not get rich in a decade)...

    And word of mouth will build you a clientel you will be happy to take care of!
    AND...
    You will not need to advertise...
    As your customers will refer you to their friends/family!

    If you want to boost business... offer 1 or 2 C notes for a referral that results in a closed sale, happy customer, that is paid for in full...

    We have not advertised since the first year in HVAC... around the turn of the century.

    Is there a chance you will get the old man's business... or at least some of his customers???
    Itís all good advice. Iíve seen that happen sometimes with our customers, but Iíve seen us lose customers. Pricing is a sensitive topic to ask about. I know most of what is paid for bills and advertising but I still think we charge to much for most things.

    I donít know if heíll try and sell his business or what. He doesnít seem to really want to retire but his health is seriously declining (both physically and mentally) and to be honest heís lost so many good customers the past year and a half that Iím not sure how many heíll have left when he retires.


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  15. #37
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    Yes, there are always folks that chase price... not understanding they are making a mistake...
    All one can do is continue to do a good job for them and let them learn the hard way...
    Or not learn...

    We have some calls like that...
    GREAT, long term customer; refers someone to us that is a cheapskate...
    IMO just part of running a business.

    In the larger picture...
    We have built a business of quality customers...
    And most of the referrals, are folks that have already decided who they want to do the work...
    All they need is someone to explain the details and give them a price.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  16. #38
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    I probably brought a few hundred dillars worth but I should have started the payment recipe. Basically you brought it once and if it screws up, the company will replace it, I like it better because I basically keep everything if I ever leave.

  17. #39
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    From my POV your boss can take it or leave it because he doesn’t have 20+ years still to work. It’s his business and he can do what he pleases and take whatever jobs for whatever price.

    Lower volume higher profit is always the goal especially as the years add up. If you’re still young ~30-40 age range then you may be wondering why someone would let work walk away right in front of you? If you’re near retirement and don’t need to build your nest egg you’ll become more selective. Don’t think he doesn’t know that he’s on the decline, he just may not want to admit it. Who would?

    If you’re serious then have a talk with him. You will need to be selective with your choice of words as not to offend him.
    Maybe ask him what his goals are in the next 5-10 years. Tell him, someday you want to run a business. Don’t forget to compliment and ask him for advice. Ask him what he suggest you do when he retires.

    Don’t look to take his business unless he’s asking you to. He can run it into the ground if he wants, but you’re the one left in the street if that happens. You can’t worry about what he’s doing, worry about your future.

    In any case, you’ll still have a year to learn and grow. So, don’t wait another 5 years to see the business you’re working for get swallowed up. You could be looking back in 5 years saying, damn I’m glad I did it!

    Hell, he may not even know you’re interested in taking over. He might make a deal to take profits without working for several years as a buyout plan. You never know til you ask. Just remember, nobody cares more about you and your family than YOU.

    I drive past some of my old employers install crew trucks, and think damn they’re still making the boss rich!!! Meanwhile they’re killing themselves after 20 years of hard work, still trying to figure out how to pay for new tools.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates

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