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  1. #1
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    [HELP] Furnace is out and there's too many choices!

    Hey all,

    I'm new here and I've done a fair amount of searching both here and on the web trying to find some info on what to do with my situation. First off, I should state that my house is 100 years old (and not in a good way). It's a single floor house at around 1200-1300 sq. ft. and the HVAC system installed was its first ever. So...the problem is this: my furnace blower motor went out on my 15+ yr. old Lennox heater. We were quoted about $ to replace it. We've already had multiple parts replaced and we're thinking that it's time for it to go. In asking our (original) installer/repair company about options, they came back with a crazy quote on a "private label" system and are quoting us over $ for just the furnace replacement alone! For historical purposes, the install cost for furnace and AC was $!

    So we decided to get a quote from another service that was rated well on Yelp (yeah, I know, but we are running out of time) and they came back with a reasonable quote of about $ for AC and furnace from Goodman. I asked for an additional quote for another equipment provider and they suggested American Standard (we should have the quote by tomorrow).

    Now...as the web tends to do, the people that are most upset about a product will post the most about how horrible things are. No difference here when I tried to research these (and other) brands. I've read that Goodman build quality has declined since the company was bought in 2012. I've read that American Standard workmanship has also suffered recently. I honestly don't know what to believe at this point as just about every site that I come across is trying to sell my info for coughing up a generic quote for this brand or that.

    I'm glad I found this site because--at least--there are professionals here that have nothing to gain by steering me towards one brand or another. So...with that being said...thanks in advance and can anyone offer advice on what brands to entertain?
    Last edited by Dad; 11-24-2019 at 07:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    So for those prices what SEER and EER are they quoting.

    If they quote a particular SEER units, ask them to prove it by requesting a AHRI number, as you can not go by what the OD unit can achieve.

    Ask them for something like this if they bother to install matching equipment.

    https://www.ahridirectory.org/Home/D...GTwmLv3loBvwEW

    Make sure to register your system of choose as manufacturers warranty decreases significantly if never registered.

    Ask for a start up/commissioning checklist, things like static pressure, amprege draws of motors and compressor, temperature rise across the HX, refrigerant charge is set to subcooling/superheat, blower fan speed is set to your residence and not necessarily left a factory default position etc etc. are all within manufacturers specifications.

    Does that price include reusing the existing lineset? If so is it sized correctly for the new equipment?

    What is the labor warranty are they offering?

    Any of them doing a load calculation to see what you really need or bidding like for like sizes?

    What size A/C and furnace size and furnace efficiency do you have for your 1200-1300 sq. ft. residence?

    “ First off, I should state that my house is 100 years old (and not in a good way). It's a single floor house at around 1200-1300 sq. ft. and the HVAC system installed was its first ever. So...the problem is this: my furnace blower. “

    Wow your HVAC system is 100 years old...lol
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 11-24-2019 at 07:27 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    So for those prices what SEER and EER are they quoting.

    If they quote a particular SEER units, ask them to prove it by requesting a AHRI number, as you can not go by what the OD unit can achieve.

    Make sure to register your system of choose as manufacturers warranty decreases significantly if never registered.

    Ask for a start up/commissioning checklist, things like static pressure, amprege draws of motors and compressor, temperature rise across the HX, refrigerant charge is set to subcooling/superheat, blower fan speed is set to your residence and not necessarily left a factory default position etc etc. are all within manufacturers specifications.
    Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of registration to obtain the best warranty--something I found in all of my searches.

    The Goodman units are: GMES80060 (3T, 60k BTU) heater, GSX14 (3T, 14 SEER) condenser, R-410A (3T) coil. They're offering a bump up to a 16 SEER for another $

    Wow...I don't even know what a lot of what you mention are. I guess that's more research for me.

    They're offering a 2 yr. labor warranty. For parts, it's 10 years for each unit and 25 years for the HX.

    We currently have a 3T system in our house.
    Last edited by Dad; 11-24-2019 at 07:39 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    Wow your HVAC system is 100 years old...lol
    What's funny is that the house didn't have central air and heat for over 80 of those years.

  5. #5
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    Someones pulling your leg, the Goodman GMES has a limited lifetime HX warranty to the original register owner, not 25 years. Check yourself. 80% furnace, GMES, product specifications

    https://www.goodmanmfg.com/products/gas-furnaces

    The GSX14 can reach up to 15 SEER depending on indoor selection. Again you can’t go by what the OD label says, as that model ( GSX14 ) probably goes from 13-15 SEER and the EER has a range also. If your not interested in knowing what your SEER and EER will be, have them install non matching systems. If your paying for and under the impression of getting a 14 SEER system ( on paper not really world situation ) ask them for the AHRI number to prove it.

    Again if they are offering to bump it up to 16 SEER, ask them to prove it by giving you the AHRI number or certificate showing your paying and getting that SEER.

    https://www.goodmanmfg.com/products/.../14-seer-gsx14

    You don’t just slap in a piece of equipment that comes in pieces and just start it and walk away, that the reason for a commissioning report. All that information is in the install guides of the furnace and OD units. There’s a bunch of does and don’t in there. If your proactive about your system download them and read it, the closer the Contractor follows the install guide and does a comprehensive start up guide/commissioning the higher probability of a more reliable system IMO.

    What did they say about your existing ductwork, does it need modifications ( if you have hot/cold areas ) or sealing.

    What’s the complete model numbers of the OD unit, ID coil, and furnace, easily tell you your SEER and EER and if they are installing matched equipment.

    I tend to believe the opposite about Goodman quality decreasing since they got bought out. Daiken a Japanese company bought them out, and built a new massive state of the art facility outside of Houston. The Japanese practice Kaizen, ( continuing improvement )
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 11-24-2019 at 08:05 PM.

  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    What did they say about your existing ductwork, does it need modifications ( if you have hot/cold areas ) or sealing.

    What’s the complete model numbers of the OD unit, ID coil, and furnace, easily tell you your SEER and EER and if they are installing matched equipment.

    I tend to believe the opposite about Goodman quality decreasing since they got bought out. Daiken a Japanese company bought them out, and built a new massive state of the art facility outside of Houston. The Japanese practice Kaizen, ( continuing improvement )
    Thanks for the info. I'll ask for the AHRI number. I hope you're right about Goodman. Like I mentioned before, it's hard to know what info to trust when searching the web.

    Regarding the existing ductwork...they recommended replacing it as there were some holes and possible leak points observed (further pressure tests would be needed to prove it). They mentioned that they could be saved and repaired, but recommended new ducting with a slightly larger duct size for more efficient output.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellboy View Post
    I hope you're right about Goodman.

    .
    You should be more worried about the Installing Contractor overall install and following the install guides as closely as possible and about that start up/commissioning thingy and hopefully they install a correctly sized duct for your system than brand..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    You should be more worried about the Installing Contractor overall install and following the install guides as closely as possible and about that start up/commissioning thingy and hopefully they install a correctly sized duct for your system than brand..
    I'm always worried about the installer. Yelp gave mostly good reviews for them, but that doesn't speak to their technical prowess. Unfortunately there's only one way to find out.

  10. #10
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    https://www.ahridirectory.org/Home/D...U9drswSV4QCx3d

    https://www.ahridirectory.org/Home/D...p82omiEFjIldvR

    They should not have to much trouble matching everything. The ones above as examples using your partial furnace and OD number. One is a 14” wide furnace other is a 17” wide furnace if you have a upflow design.

    Both require a field installed TXV to achieve those ratings.

    If they use the CA*F that case coil has a piston metering device, reason for the F ( flowrater piston )

    The furnace having number 3 in the model number indicates up to 3 ton A/C

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    They should not have to much trouble matching everything. The ones above as examples using your partial furnace and OD number. One is a 14” wide furnace other is a 17” wide furnace if you have a upflow design.

    Both require a field installed TXV to achieve those ratings.

    If they use the CA*F that case coil has a piston metering device, reason for the F ( flowrater piston )

    The furnace having number 3 in the model number indicates up to 3 ton A/C
    Thanks again for the info. I guess we'll go with Goodman after all. I found more info about American Standard and I found some negative points about overall cost vs. repair vs. reliability that bothered me more than what I found about Goodman.

    I wish I had more time to do due diligence, but we're up against hard deadlines of not being able to be home and the fact that it's getting chilly in here.

  12. #12
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    REASONABLE IS not Present Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellboy View Post
    Hey all,

    I'm new here and I've done a fair amount of searching both here and on the web trying to find some info on what to do with my situation.

    First off, I should state that my house is 100 years old (and not in a good way).
    It's a single floor house at around 1200-1300 sq. ft.

    and the HVAC system installed was its first ever.

    So...the problem is this: my furnace blower motor went out on my 15+ yr. old Lennox heater.
    We were quoted about $ to replace it. We've already had multiple parts replaced and we're thinking that it's time for it to go.
    In asking our (original) installer/repair company about options,
    they came back with a crazy quote on a "private label" system and are quoting us over $ for just the furnace replacement alone! For historical purposes, the install cost for furnace and AC was $!

    I'm glad I found this site because--at least--there are professionals here that have nothing to gain by steering me towards one brand or another.

    So...with that being said...thanks in advance and can anyone offer advice on what brands to entertain?
    IT IS DIFFICULT-TO-IMPOSSIBLE to make a realistic, reliable recommendation
    unless THE DESIGN PROCESS AND EQUIPMENT SELECTION PROCEDURES ARE FOLLOWED.

    I WOULD NOT MAKE A SUGGESTION at-this-point ON A 100 YEAR OLD HOME
    without the KNOWN INFILTRATION results from a Blower Door Test.

    ACCA MANUALS J, S & D

    AIR DISTRIBUTION review has not been mentioned.

    Equipment size and the mechanical contractor will make or break the project.

    ZIP _ _ _ _ _
    ___ 27'N or 54'N Latitude
    ___ 100' or 11,000' Elevation
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    IT IS DIFFICULT-TO-IMPOSSIBLE to make a realistic, reliable recommendation
    unless THE DESIGN PROCESS AND EQUIPMENT SELECTION PROCEDURES ARE FOLLOWED.

    I WOULD NOT MAKE A SUGGESTION at-this-point ON A 100 YEAR OLD HOME
    without the KNOWN INFILTRATION results from a Blower Door Test.

    ACCA MANUALS J, S & D

    AIR DISTRIBUTION review has not been mentioned.

    Equipment size and the mechanical contractor will make or break the project.

    ZIP _ _ _ _ _
    ___ 27'N or 54'N Latitude
    ___ 100' or 11,000' Elevation
    All good points and I'll make sure to ask for that.

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