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  1. #53
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    Nov 2019
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    Ah actually he said a new system for them is a heat pump with new electric furnace, that's was their definition of a new system. At least the Goodman competitor.

    The first guy with the Maytag machine told me it was extra time at the end to get the commissioning and it was going to be quite expensive. We didn't even discuss the SEER and HSPF proof.

    I don't know what's happening with Carrier's website.. but I think this would be the right machine this time:

    https://www.carrier.com/residential/...-pumps/25hcc5/
    or
    https://www.carrier.com/residential/...-pumps/25hha4/

    The difference between Seer 14 and 14.5 is it worth a brutal fight ? The difference between Seer 14 ans 16 doesn't seem to be a huge step.. I care more about a machine that will produce more heat then the previous one then a machine that will cost less in electricity. If it costs equally or less then the previous machine while heating more it's already a win.. Plus we can't really get a machine with less then Seer 14. I also don't know the difference in price between a Seer 14, 16 machine. Perhaps it's 500$ but it could be 50$ too.

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatPump123 View Post
    Ah actually he said a new system for them is a heat pump with new electric furnace, that's was their definition of a new system. At least the Goodman competitor.

    The first guy with the Maytag machine told me it was extra time at the end to get the commissioning and it was going to be quite expensive. We didn't even discuss the SEER and HSPF proof.

    I don't know what's happening with Carrier's website.. but I think this would be the right machine this time:

    https://www.carrier.com/residential/...-pumps/25hcc5/
    or
    https://www.carrier.com/residential/...-pumps/25hha4/

    The difference between Seer 14 and 14.5 is it worth a brutal fight ? The difference between Seer 14 ans 16 doesn't seem to be a huge step.. I care more about a machine that will produce more heat then the previous one then a machine that will cost less in electricity. If it costs equally or less then the previous machine while heating more it's already a win.. Plus we can't really get a machine with less then Seer 14. I also don't know the difference in price between a Seer 14, 16 machine. Perhaps it's 500$ but it could be 50$ too.
    Those two sites mention current models and not the 25HBC3 you originally posted, so guessing that model is not made anymore? Did a Contractor ( 25HBC3 ) actually bid one to you, is that why you posted that model initially? 14 SEER to 14.5 SEER in negligible in savings.

    Difference in price from the 14 to 16 SEER models, like a car base model to a higher tier model. Cost more, more features.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 12-10-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  3. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    Thread Starter
    I spoke with the guy from Carrier, we arranged a visit next Monday morning. He is proposing a Carrier Performance 25HPB 624 A 2t. I liked that discussion a lot, he told me they will verify all the specs of the machine at the end to make sure it's running according to the specs, so the Commissioning form.

    That's a great start with Carrier.

    I asked by e-mail if they are going to prove the how effective is the machine at the end.. because we know it's going to run at something like SEER 14.5 efficiency as discussed...

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    You can get 14.5 SEER AHRI matched system, but if your going with a uncased coil ( which is what you have ) there looks to be only one match using a 2 ton coil with the 25HPB624

    #10483223 which is a 17” wide coil. Gives you 14.5 SEER 8.5 HSPF has a “A” coil.

    Carrier makes the “N” uncased coil also, but that coil does not look to show as being a match with the OD model number you provided. Both have the TXV metering device.

    The only other match seen was a 3 ton coil 17” wide gives you 14 SEER and a higher HSPF of 9

    AHRI number 204498672

    Both are listed as CAP** or CAPVU Carrier coil.

    What is the diameter of your existing furnace, as if it’s 21” wide then sticking a 17” wide coil is not idea even thou it’s a matched system giving you the 14.5 SEER as you state “we know it’s going to run at something like SEER 14.5

    Are they going to bid a uncased coil ( which is what you have now ) or a cased coil?

    Here’s the site to check yourself. Just add those number in.

    Tell them to prove your going to get 14.5 SEER on paper, and if they say a certain HSPF.

    If your not a stickler for matched systems, sure that 16 SEER rated OD unit should work with any same size or slight larger tonnage wise coil they put inside that duct.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...znxCFNAi8fJHHj
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 12-12-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatPump123 View Post

    I asked by e-mail if they are going to prove the how effective is the machine at the end.. because we know it's going to run at something like SEER 14.5 efficiency as discussed...
    What did they say?



    “A” coil AHRI numbers

    https://www.carrier.com/residential/...r-coils/capvu/


    “N” coil non AHRI match for the OD unit you provided. err..at least didn’t see any

    https://www.carrier.com/residential/...r-coils/cnpvu/

  6. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SE Washington
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    If you are predominately looking for better heat performance, please ignore seer rating as that is for air conditioning and center on a higher hspf machine thats matched with correct coil, the money savings between 8 hspf and 8.5 is very negligible

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    More stuff....on the Carrier 25HPB6

    https://www.carrier.com/residential/...-pumps/25hpb6/

    Scroll down to Documents, change to Engineers, Architects and Contractors.

    Checklist- is a commissioning guide. Dated 2019

    Installation - discusses subcooling charge and a bunch of other things. Hopefully the bidding Contractors follow the guide as closely as possible. Dated 2019

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    28
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    Thread Starter
    Carrier said the same thing then the others, no AHRI homogenization possible with the old oil furnace, it's useless to even discuss that with them they don't want to talk about it. He also was honest by saying to me that they won't fully follow the installation guide of the machine also, nobody does that and bla bla bla. The price is much much higher then Goodman, beyond my worst imagined scenario. It,s literally the price of the Goodman + 1/3 of the price of the Goodman..

    I am a bit disappointed this time.

    The Carrier guy was the only one talking about machines lasting more then 15 years.. on one side people tell me it's 12 to 15, on the other side 15 to 20.

  9. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    They make AHRI matches, did some homework for your Contractor and you.

    AHRI numbers using a Aspen coil gives you the 20” wide coil. As according to your dimensions you posted your plenum looks t be 20”x20” give or take.

    AHRI # 203360930 and 203360931 the 1st looks to be a 2 ton uncased coil @ 14.5 SEER 11.80 EER and 8.4 HSPF whereas the 2nd number looks to be a 2.5 ton uncased coil @ 14.5 SEER 11.70 EER and 8.40 HSPF on paper, not real world.

    Check yourself enter number, search, select, number is highlighted in blue , click that to view certificate.. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...znxCFNAi8fJHHj

    Odd how the coil was mounted, as in my region we typically install coils at a 90 degree turn to have the drain and lineset hook up in front of furnace, sometimes in the back, but can’t remember seeing one sideways. Looks like they just mounted the coil on top of the furnace internal flange and not elevated.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9O2q69K_EmRT5H

    Page 6 shows the 19 1/2” wide coil for your furnace. Don’t believe Carrier makes one that wide that is a AHRI match.

    Well.....Carrier is a big name, heavily advertised meaning that cost is passed onto the Contractor who then passes that on the customers. One reason it cost more than the Goodman.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 12-17-2019 at 08:58 AM.

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