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Thread: No bias, huh...

  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    OK but if you don't want to compromise your position wouldn't you be in the same camp as the left, only a different flavor.
    No one wants to compromise and so the standoff.
    LBJ was a master of compromise. He used every trick he knew to get the Civil Rights Act passed even though he knew the price. He said we (the dems) would loose the South for a generation. It's been a lot longer but he believed the law was moral.
    Trump's lack of effort to address health care tells me the industry wants to keep things as they are. I think he responds best to money interests. He or his family doesn't need health care so he has little interest.
    This is from my special Crystal Ball.


    Extremes on either side shouldn't be the ones controlling the conversation.
    Given that there is no solid objective truth, tell me why "Extremes on either side shouldn't be the ones controlling the conversation"? That claim itself is an absolute. Why should that "rule" be some kind of absolute?

    You see, when someone makes the claim that there is no absolute truth, they are making a self defeating claim within the claim itself. Relative truth claims are all self defeating, self contradictory.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  2. #54
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    We were discussing government. If there were an absolute truth there might be some agreement with people. I'm not referring to some assumption of a God given Truth.
    In some countries, extremes do control the conversion. Probably most. I would say in a democracy extremes should take their place but at the end of the line.
    I'd go further and say a person in a democracy not willing to compromise, doesn't belong in a democracy. This is not the pursuit of a commandment, this is an agreement of peoples of how to be governed.
    In government there is ideally an agreement of those governed but that is no test of absolute truth. Tell me an absolute truth. Or an absolute lie.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    We were discussing government. If there were an absolute truth there might be some agreement with people. I'm not referring to some assumption of a God given Truth.
    In some countries, extremes do control the conversion. Probably most. I would say in a democracy extremes should take their place but at the end of the line.
    I'd go further and say a person in a democracy not willing to compromise, doesn't belong in a democracy. This is not the pursuit of a commandment, this is an agreement of peoples of how to be governed.
    In government there is ideally an agreement of those governed but that is no test of absolute truth. Tell me an absolute truth. Or an absolute lie.


    I will give you two absolute truths off the top of my head. Both have always been true at all times.

    1) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    2) The poor you will have with you always.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  4. #56
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    Thread Starter
    Here are a couple more:

    Trusting a polecat NEVER works out well for the average citizen...
    Political power lies in the barrel of a firearm!
    Idealism, Nirvana, and Paradise... NEVER will exist, as long as mankind rules the earth...
    WE (humans) are the problem... as we are the ones subject to temptation and corruption when power and wealth are at hand...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  5. #57
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    The Trump family are descended from Esau.

  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    We were discussing government. If there were an absolute truth there might be some agreement with people. I'm not referring to some assumption of a God given Truth.
    In some countries, extremes do control the conversion. Probably most. I would say in a democracy extremes should take their place but at the end of the line.
    I'd go further and say a person in a democracy not willing to compromise, doesn't belong in a democracy. This is not the pursuit of a commandment, this is an agreement of peoples of how to be governed.
    In government there is ideally an agreement of those governed but that is no test of absolute truth. Tell me an absolute truth. Or an absolute lie.
    We've discussed compromise in several posts, in which I've stated that there are times when one shouldn't compromise. I may have missed it, but haven't seen you respond to that. You seem to remain in the realm of "cooperation", ignoring the concept of standing on principle.

    And so it's unclear...do you believe that there are times when Principle trumps compromise?

    Also, whether we are discussing government or not seems irrelevant to the matter of 'absolute truth'. There will be no 'consensus' of agreement amongst the people regardless. It's the human condition. This doesn't diminish the reality of the existence of absolute Truth. If it begins with God (and it does), it impacts all areas of life. The 'absolute lie' is that there is no absolute Truth.

    Absolute Truth doesn't need our agreement, belief or consent.

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    We've discussed compromise in several posts, in which I've stated that there are times when one shouldn't compromise. I may have missed it, but haven't seen you respond to that. You seem to remain in the realm of "cooperation", ignoring the concept of standing on principle.

    And so it's unclear...do you believe that there are times when Principle trumps compromise?

    Also, whether we are discussing government or not seems irrelevant to the matter of 'absolute truth'. There will be no 'consensus' of agreement amongst the people regardless. It's the human condition. This doesn't diminish the reality of the existence of absolute Truth. If it begins with God (and it does), it impacts all areas of life. The 'absolute lie' is that there is no absolute Truth.

    Absolute Truth doesn't need our agreement, belief or consent.
    Quite true!

    What happens when one chooses to not accept nor respect absolute truth...
    That same truth the person rejects... ends up the spoke blocking their wheel from turning!

    Advise to the lefties: Your lives would be a lot easier... if you would outgrow that childish rebellion against God's truth!
    But then... IMO each of you will have to learn the lesson in the previous sentence... the hard way.
    So have at it... bang your head against the wall until it hurts too much...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Quite true!

    What happens when one chooses to not accept nor respect absolute truth...
    That same truth the person rejects... ends up the spoke blocking their wheel from turning!

    Advise to the lefties: Your lives would be a lot easier... if you would outgrow that childish rebellion against God's truth!
    But then... IMO each of you will have to learn the lesson in the previous sentence... the hard way.
    So have at it... bang your head against the wall until it hurts too much...
    And may the 'pain' be a guiding light!

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    And may the 'pain' be a guiding light!
    GA remembers... back when I used to do Biblical counseling in the churches (try to get folks to clean up their lives)...
    Something discussed at a conference for counselors:

    'Real and meaningful change will ONLY happen...
    When the pain of remaining the same...
    Is GREATER than the pain of change!'

    Funny... however from that point on... literally every counselee.. proved that tidbit to be true, over and over and over!
    Each one of them would resist yielding their will to God... until God turned up the heat to the point it hurt too much!

    Side comment: we used to laugh about 'praying for someones broken-ness'...
    However in reality, that would be usurping God's authority in the other person's life.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    GA remembers... back when I used to do Biblical counseling in the churches (try to get folks to clean up their lives)...
    Something discussed at a conference for counselors:

    'Real and meaningful change will ONLY happen...
    When the pain of remaining the same...
    Is GREATER than the pain of change!'


    Funny... however from that point on... literally every counselee.. proved that tidbit to be true, over and over and over!
    Each one of them would resist yielding their will to God... until God turned up the heat to the point it hurt too much!

    The human condition.

    Side comment: we used to laugh about 'praying for someones broken-ness'...
    However in reality, that would be usurping God's authority in the other person's life.
    How so? I think brokenness is a gift. Difficult, but a gift. When there's no place to go but 'up'.

    BTW, don't be prayin' for my brokenness!

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    The human condition.



    How so? I think brokenness is a gift. Difficult, but a gift. When there's no place to go but 'up'.

    BTW, don't be prayin' for my brokenness!
    Aw, come on now... the pain WOULD be worth the gain...

    The point I was going towards... it is God's choice when to turn the heat up and how much heat to turn on...
    To bring someone to a level of broken-ness that will result in a TOTAL surrender to Him.

    And since ONLY God knows that exact point...
    For me to pray for it to happen... would be playing God... which I am not qualified to do...
    Not even playing assistant Holy Spirit... which it appears many Christians think they are qualified to do... grin.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  12. #64
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    Great responses above to havcer's typical professor style intellectual elitism you may hear floated around in a teachers lounge.

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    The Trump family are descended from Esau.
    And you corn are obviously descended from Cain. Yeah. Thank you very much

    "And Cain said to Abel his brother, "Let us go out to the field," and when they were in the field Cain rose against Abel his brother and killed him. 9And the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother? And he said, "I do not know: am I my brother's keeper?" 10And He said, "What have you done? Listen! your brother's blood cries out to me from the soil. 11And so, cursed shall you be by the soil that gaped with its mouth to take your brother's blood from your hand. 12If you till the soil, it will no longer give you strength. A restless wanderer shall you be on the earth." 13 And Cain said to the Lord, "My punishment is too great to bear. 14Now that You have driven me this day from the soil I must hide from Your presence, I shall be a restless wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me." 15And the Lord said to him, "Therefore whoever kills Cain shall suffer sevenfold vengeance." And the Lord set a mark upon Cain so that whoever found him would not slay him."
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Sen. Barry Goldwater

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