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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    Advice on New System Specs

    Hi,

    I currently have a system from 2003. The heat package is only working at 1/2 capacity, need a new motor, and the inside needs to be cleaned I've had two vendors come out and give me quotes on cost to fix and cost to replace. Based on the Refrigerant in my current system not being produced anymore after 2019 and the current system being 15 years old I'm leaning towards getting a new system.

    Current system spec are:
    - Outside unit Trane XR12: 2TWR2024A1000AB
    - Inside unit Trane TWE031E13FB1 (2.5 - 5 ton)

    I've decided on a contractor to do the work and the two systems I'm deciding between are:

    Option 1
    Link: Carrier : COMFORT 14S: 2.5 TON, 25HCE430A003
    Link: Carrier : Comfort: B-FB4CNP030L00

    Option 2
    Link: Carrier : Performance 16: 2.5 TON, SINGLE STG, 25HPB630A003
    Link: Carrier : Performance: B-FV4CNF002L00

    The price difference to go to a 16 SEER is $2500 Which given that the 16 SEER is still a single stage unit the jump seems unreasonable. I'd like any thoughts on the two options and if going up to 2.5 on the outside unit is the correct move given the current outside unit is just 2 ton. My home is 1346 Sq Ft and I live in Climate Zone 3.


    Thanks in advance for all your feedback.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    Both systems are AHRI match, but the Performance series you quoted is rated at 15 SEER and not 16 SEER, even thou Carrier web-site it’s rated at 16. You can’t base SEER ratings on OD selection only.

    https://www.ahridirectory.org/Home/D...K6jmbwUg7QdpJV

    https://www.ahridirectory.org/Home/D...LqvEZF8dgAFW/h

    Possible that unit may qualify for any rebates your state or local utility company may have.

    One source: https://www.dsireusa.org/

    The comfort series is the bare bone model, no louvered OD coil protection like the performance series has, don’t believe it even has any high or low refrigerant pressure safety switches. The 16 SEER says it has both a high and low pressure safety switch, louvered metal wrap around to help protect the OD coil better.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks for the feedback. Will start checking the specs against AHRI as well. Did you have any thoughts on the tonnage question I had?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    New England
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkwyche View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. Will start checking the specs against AHRI as well. Did you have any thoughts on the tonnage question I had?
    Do a load calculation 1st. There are free ones online. Here’s one https://www.loadcalc.net/

    Looks like the 16 SEER Air Handler has a variable speed motor vs a constant torque ECM on the 14 SEER system. So all that affects cost.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkwyche View Post
    Thanks for the feedback.
    Will start checking the specs against AHRI as well.
    Did you have any thoughts on the tonnage question I had?
    __ ZIP _ _ _ _ _ <--- REQUIRED for DESIGN Tempeeratures, HDD & CDD
    _________ _ _ CLIMATE ZONE 3 is Very VAGUE

    1,346 Sq. Ft.
    _____ Age of Residence __ Y.O. [ < 20 ? ]
    ___ _ _ _ Built 1970 or 2003

    # of windows ____ / 9 to 15; or Total Glass Area: ~ 140 to 180 Sq Feet

    Window Type: ___ Double or Triple Pane
    S.H.G.C. _ 0._ _
    U-Factor _ 0._ _

    Monthly electrical use ( KW-Hrs) for the last ~ 24 months

    A.C.H. Natural __ 0. _ _ based on BLOWER DOOR TEST

    General indoor R.H. % from May to October

    ___ I would presume 2.0 Tons has been MORE THAN ADEQUATE,
    if you were _ not _ inclined to make any adjustments to Heat Pump system since 2003.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    SW FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkwyche View Post
    Thanks for the feedback.
    Will start checking the specs against AHRI as well.
    Did you have any thoughts on the tonnage question I had?
    __ ZIP _ _ _ _ _ <--- REQUIRED for DESIGN Tempeeratures, HDD & CDD
    _________ _ _ CLIMATE ZONE 3 is Very VAGUE

    1,346 Sq. Ft.
    _____ Age of Residence __ Y.O. [ < 20 ? ]
    ___ _ _ _ Built 1970 or 2003

    # of windows ____ / 9 to 15; or Total Glass Area: ~ 140 to 180 Sq Feet

    Window Type: ___ Double or Triple Pane
    S.H.G.C. _ 0._ _
    U-Factor _ 0._ _

    Monthly electrical use ( KW-Hrs) for the last ~ 24 months

    __________ used to verify my BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE model

    A.C.H. Natural __ 0. _ _ based on BLOWER DOOR TEST

    General indoor R.H. % from May to October

    ___ I would presume 2.0 Tons has been MORE THAN ADEQUATE,
    if you were _ not _ inclined to make any adjustments to Heat Pump system since 2003.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    Why are you increasing the capacity from 2-Tons too 2 1/2-Tons?

    Are they increasing the ducts 25% as well?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Why are you increasing the capacity from 2-Tons too 2 1/2-Tons?

    Are they increasing the ducts 25% as well?
    No they are not this is why I'm reaching out on here and getting a third quote tomorrow. First supplier quoted 2 Ton system and second supplier quoted a 2.5 ton system. I brought the home 6 years ago so HVAC system was already in place. I have no clue why the system was 2 ton for outside unit but 2.5 ton for inside unit. Reading feedback in this post, getting a third quote I hope to be more sure.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
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    Not unusual to install a larger indoor unit to outdoor unit, who knows why they did that initially.

    Make sure to register your system of choose as manufacturers warranty decreases significantly if never registered.

    Any reason your stuck on Carrier? If you want a 2 stage for the same price as what your being quoted for a one stage Carrier 15-16 SEER unit, there are many lesser promoted brands out there. Some will have even better manufacturers warranty, and even the same standard features as the Carrier, or may have even more manufacturers standard features and you can get a AHRI rated 16 SEER system that may have a better chance at rebates also.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    4
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    Not unusual to install a larger indoor unit to outdoor unit, who knows why they did that initially.

    Make sure to register your system of choose as manufacturers warranty decreases significantly if never registered.

    Any reason your stuck on Carrier? If you want a 2 stage for the same price as what your being quoted for a one stage Carrier 15-16 SEER unit, there are many lesser promoted brands out there. Some will have even better manufacturers warranty, and even the same standard features as the Carrier, or may have even more manufacturers standard features and you can get a AHRI rated 16 SEER system that may have a better chance at rebates also.
    Thanks again for the reply Joey. Have mainly mentioned Carrier because one company installs Rheems and Carriers the other installs Carriers. Both technicians suggested Carrier is the more established and better brand and doing my own research it appears Carrier has a good reputation so I'm inclined to go with Carrier.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    New England
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkwyche View Post
    Thanks again for the reply Joey. Have mainly mentioned Carrier because one company installs Rheems and Carriers the other installs Carriers. Both technicians suggested Carrier is the more established and better brand and doing my own research it appears Carrier has a good reputation so I'm inclined to go with Carrier.
    Could be wrong but believe the 14 SEER OD unit is manufacturered in Mexico, whereas the 16 SEER is manufacturered in the USA. Not sure about where those Air Handlers are manufacturered. Yes there are tons of lesser known brands. IDK Rheem as one of those. Thinking names like Armstrong Air, to a degree Amana, Tempstar, as example only, but I suppose if the Carrier or Rheem are readily available and are sold by many distributors, parts are readily available thou probably more expensive as your paying for the name and all that extra overhead cost of advertisement and what not in keeping those names in the forefront.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    The Comfort line is American, the CH series which is for RNC and mutli family though certainly finds its way in to residential, is Mexican. The CH series isn't on Carrier's website last I knew. Took a while before the BH (Bryant's version) appeared on their dealer site.

    Indy lost fan coils to Mexico. They built a new plant for them (F plant) near the old Monterrey plant. The Comfort and CH lines are about the cheapest built units out there. NO cabinet, timed defrost (which many have).

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    SW FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkwyche View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. Will start checking the specs against AHRI as well.

    Did you have any thoughts on the tonnage question I had?
    Any contractor proposing a 2.5 Ton is
    attempting to provide you an inferior equipment selection.

    given This Presumed scenario
    ________ _______ ____ it's time to start at Square 1.

    ________ Q. Sensible = ~ 17,000
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

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