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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    New England
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    Quote Originally Posted by penderhvac View Post
    Thanks. Yes I did know about the 10 year warranty but thought that Goodman gave you a compressor. I had an Amana 18 SEER heatpump in my last house and was aware it had a new unit replacement policy but did not know the Goodman badge gave me the coverage.

    I have not seen any baseline data from the install commissioning so that is something I need to ask about.

    Many thanks and have a good week!

    PS: If we get this mystery solved, I will post back so the information can possibly help the next guy.
    You must have the GSZC18 as that’s the only 18 SEER Heat Pump Goodman makes

    https://www.goodmanmfg.com/products/.../gszc18-dszc18

    “product specifications” page one says once registered and to original owner lifetime compressor warranty, 10 years parts, and 1st 10 years if compressor ever fails a new OD unit.

    Now depending on your furnace model number the same may apply, new furnace within 1st 10 years if HX fails, limited lifetime HX warranty after that and 10 years parts once registered.

    Yes certain Amana models have the limited lifetime whole new OD unit if compressor ever fails. The ASZC18 Heat Pump being one.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Thread Starter
    We had the installer out this week to try and analyze/diagnose/fix the problem. ( Fortunately it is under 1 year builders warranty for parts and labor. )

    After much head scratching, he was stumped. However he did check charge in Heating mode and found it was slightly over charged. During the check it did cut out on him however the sequence was a little different than what we caught in the cooling mode. What we saw was:
    1. Unit running on P2 ( second stage)
    2. Unit Stops on 0n ( standby ) and air handler stops suddenly, does not ramp down as it does in a normal stop.
    3. Thermostat still 2* from setpoint
    4. After a minute or so P3 error shows ( Heat Short Cycle Timer )
    5. A few minutes later system starts in P2.

    The other issue we saw was the compressor was drawing more amps than the spec sheet indicated at the 50* OAT.
    The expanded heating data calls for about 10.4A (includes fan on outdoor unit ). We were measuring 12.5 after 20 minutes. Low speed is also a bit high Should be 7.7A actual is 9.1 .Yes meter is accurate as we crosschecked hes meter with mine.

    The tech thought it may be the thermostat - a communicating CTK04AB- so that will be replaced when new one comes in.

    More Details as they evolve next week.

    Equipment involved: CTK04AB Thermostat, Goodman GMVC960804CN (propane furnace), GSZC180361CA (outdoor unit) and CHPF3743CBB coil. And Yes I did verify the registration and printed copies for my records.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
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    So did he correct the charge issue.

    A new thermostat won't help if he didn't.
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    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
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    The only way to check the charge in heat mode is to pull it and weigh it! "Slightly Over" is guessing!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by penderhvac View Post
    We had the installer out this week to try and analyze/diagnose/fix the problem. ( Fortunately it is under 1 year builders warranty for parts and labor. )

    After much head scratching, he was stumped. However he did check charge in Heating mode and found it was slightly over charged. During the check it did cut out on him however the sequence was a little different than what we caught in the cooling mode. What we saw was:
    1. Unit running on P2 ( second stage)
    2. Unit Stops on 0n ( standby ) and air handler stops suddenly, does not ramp down as it does in a normal stop.
    3. Thermostat still 2* from setpoint
    4. After a minute or so P3 error shows ( Heat Short Cycle Timer )
    5. A few minutes later system starts in P2.

    The other issue we saw was the compressor was drawing more amps than the spec sheet indicated at the 50* OAT.
    The expanded heating data calls for about 10.4A (includes fan on outdoor unit ). We were measuring 12.5 after 20 minutes. Low speed is also a bit high Should be 7.7A actual is 9.1 .Yes meter is accurate as we crosschecked hes meter with mine.

    The tech thought it may be the thermostat - a communicating CTK04AB- so that will be replaced when new one comes in.

    More Details as they evolve next week.

    Equipment involved: CTK04AB Thermostat, Goodman GMVC960804CN (propane furnace), GSZC180361CA (outdoor unit) and CHPF3743CBB coil. And Yes I did verify the registration and printed copies for my records.
    Consider getting a Certified Contractor out too review the entire install. It will cost a few bucks but can save many more down the road.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    45
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    So did he correct the charge issue.

    A new thermostat won't help if he didn't.
    I agree it probably is not the thermostat since it is both a cooling and heating issue and the transition from P3 to standby shuts the blower off immediately and does not use the ramp down profile. However I don’t know Honeywell’s logic so that is just an assumption.

    He only took out a few oz and pressure went from 405 or so down to 386 on the hot side and now is at 116 on the cold side. While these are not exactly what the chart calls for, it is pretty close.

    As far as I can tell the charge was corrected. Here is a shot of the inside chart. Name:  F0DB94AB-0EEA-4687-85B3-A766C911E0F9.jpg
Views: 117
Size:  173.6 KBAttachment 813047

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by penderhvac View Post
    I agree it probably is not the thermostat since it is both a cooling and heating issue and the transition from P3 to standby shuts the blower off immediately and does not use the ramp down profile. However I don’t know Honeywell’s logic so that is just an assumption.

    He only took out a few oz and pressure went from 405 or so down to 386 on the hot side and now is at 116 on the cold side. While these are not exactly what the chart calls for, it is pretty close.

    As far as I can tell the charge was corrected. Here is a shot of the inside chart. Name:  F0DB94AB-0EEA-4687-85B3-A766C911E0F9.jpg
Views: 117
Size:  173.6 KBAttachment 813047
    Get an independent contractor to advise.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
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    Should have recovered the charge, and then weighed it back in.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Should have recovered the charge, and then weighed it back in.
    Agreed. When they replace the thermostat and system still shuts off, that will be my request.

    Somehow I really don’t think the shutting down is related to the charge as there is no overload or klixon trip error on the unit or in the thermostat log. On a prior Amana system in a different house a tech thought it was under charged and dumped a bunch of R410a into the system. Later that weekend I had no heat from compressor overloads. The Sunday tech removed 4+ pounds.

    I never knew it was that hard to get things right. This was a different company than I am currently using.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
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    560
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    Ask your tech if he knows what dc voltage should be between terminal 1 & 2. If he doesn’t know what it should be he will spend a lot of time chasing his tail.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    45
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    Thread Starter
    The saga continues.
    Different Tech on site Thursday. Still no firm diagnosis on P3/C3 issues but seems there may be a bad TXV on the cooling side.

    He went through the thermostat and verified all was set properly.

    He put the system in C1 and checked pressures. The Superheat was very high (16* or so) on low stage. He went under and adjusted the TXV to get it down in the 10* range- spec is 7-9*. When he put it in C2 it jumped back to 15*. Feeling the coil in the AHU, he thought it was flooded. His diagnosis: a bad TXV, possibly, so he called a Guru at Daikin he knew from some training. However he was in class, awaiting a call back.

    Another strange thing I saw later that day was the Outside Air Temperature displayed on the CTK04 was really jumping around. For example: when the unit was running it claimed a 30* temp, when it stopped the temp increased 4-5*.

    And the Equipment status showing on the main menu in the CTK04 is only showing Stage 1 "ON" when in fact both stages are "ON". This occurs when the system is cycling to maintain setpoint. If I bump the setpoint up manually a few degrees, both stages show "ON".

    To be continued.

    Ahhhh Give me a Honeywell T87 any day. LOL.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
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    As previously stated, if he doesn’t know DC voltage between communication terminals 1 & 2, he is chasing his tail. And yes I have seen the same symptoms other than the changing superheat settings.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Thread Starter
    I have finally been able to schedule a service call for next Monday. The TXV valve confirmed bad by Goodman support was "back ordered" and we were enjoying the Grandkids so this had to wait while Gran and Pa did the important things in life!!

    In any case, they will be replacing the TVX, making sure the fixed orifice as been removed, replacing the filter/dryer (and locating the new one inside out of the rust zone). The lead tech indicated that they would weigh in the charge. The name plate calls for ~220 oz of R410a and from what I gather there needs to be 0.6oz per foot of lineset over 15'. Since my lines are about 30', extra will need to be added.

    As a point of curiosity, is there any adjustment needed for the evaporator coil? There are AHRI listings for this unit with a CHPF4860 coil and a CHPF3743 coil. I assume the tubing in the larger coil is longer and thus has more volume. Is this something that needs to be compensated for? Mine has a CHPF3743 coil as the CHPF4860 would not fit through the crawl space door so this is really just a question for my personal knowlege.

    Also as part of the visit, they will remove the chassis ground on terminal C of the communicating link at the compressor and use a spare wire to connect between terminal C of the furnace and the compressor.

    And yes they will need to verify the DC Bias voltage between 1-2 is 0.6 VDC !!

    Lets hope this puts the P3/C3 error saga to bed forever.

    Thanks to all who have helped me through this.

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