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  1. #14
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    You could also say that people who work at desk jobs all day get DVT's.

    Unlike, what you see, I do NOT see very many good techs going into the trade. I see bad techs who are hired because they have a pulse.

    Sales techs are meeting their match with informed customers. People talk, and with social media, they talk a LOT. When someone suggests they needed a repair for less than xxx, and instead, they paid xx,xxx for a new system that does not dehumidify as well, they REALLY start talking.

    You can't import enough workers.

    You have to compete for them in the technical marketplace. That WILL drive wages up, just as it did for pilots. Even now, with higher wages, they are still having trouble hiring good people to fly airplanes. It's the lifestyle and the money. If you can have both without the hassle of flying for someone else, you can buy your own airplane with what you make at a better job.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

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  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parksy View Post
    Hey guys, just wanted to see what everyone thought about Human Error in the trade. From my experience I would say almost half of the service calls
    I would put it closer to 85%

    The only reason it continues is because an error today which may be very detrimental to the equipment still may take 3 to 5 years to kill it.

  3. #16
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    I would guess that 80% of my service calls are on equipment that is 20 to 30 years old. Sometimes even 35 years old. Stuff just got old and wore out.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  4. #17
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    I have had two service calls in the past 6 weeks where I was told that the previous service tech did not want to go up on the roof.

    The most recent of these also include d a report that said, "the guy pulled the thermostat off the wall and started poking around with a paper clip."

    I have two sites in the same shopping center near King of Prussia. One received new Lennox units , installed by NAS. The stat wiring for the Siemens controls is insufficient (not enough conductors) so stages are all jumped together.

    They don't want to fix it...too expensive.

    The other site has new Lennox units installed by a UA contractor. Piping so close to one unit that you can't fully open the blower door. Dozens of repairs to the units. Insufficient diffusers. Undiagnosed TEV failures.

    I could go on and on.

    I used to say that I spent two months out of the year following up on other techs and contractors. I think this year it will be three months.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

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  5. #18
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    Yeah there is alot of "human error" out there if you want to call it that. Lots of it I would say is due to them not caring or just wanting to get through the job fast especially quoted jobs. For the human error part most people have at one point been guilty of that, just hopefully you learn from it. Had one of my journeymen leave a rack off at a grocery store once so now I double/triple check all systems operation. But like a few guys said all the hacks give job security to the good techs and helps your reputation, unfortunately it's at the cost of the home owner

  6. #19
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    Seems like the average sales tech outnumber the average service tech 5-1 and parts changers are all too common.
    A good install crew is a rare thing in my neck of the woods going from n.c to n.j it hasn’t changed as much as I thought it would.
    Hvac hacks are why most of us get our hours in.

  7. Likes CEAS-AC-TECH liked this post.
  8. #20
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    I have a co-worker, a relatively new-hire, who was just yesterday telling me about how his previous employer was trying to turn him into a "sales-tech". He quit because he wants to continue along the lines of doing service work.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  9. #21
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    Human error or human knowledge? I can't say as I see a lot of human error, some but not a lot. I see more situations where people don't know any better, they haven't been taught correctly, never been told the why it is better to do this than that, etc. It is easy to look at a ductulator and see that this size duct will move X CFM, it is a different thing to then look at all the fitting and find out that instead of 100EF the system has 750EF. All of a sudden the duct that should work doesn't for lack of better fittings. Charging is the same. The suction line needs to be cold but they lack the understanding that adding refrigerant can be just as detrimental as too little. Somewhere they loose sight that more refrigerant means higher pressure which translates to a warmer coil/less cooling. They may know to check SH/SC but never go the why and how to apply it.

    Some of this I chalk up to human greed. Training is expensive and proper technique takes time which costs money. In the race to the bottom both of these become an anchor. Add to that the change in attitude about work and you have a disaster. My generation lived to work the latest work to live. I am not saying either is right but my generation was/is more apt to look for knowledge on their own time where the latest want personal time to be theirs and not a benefit to their boss such as learning at home. Again not saying either is right just different points of view.

    The only answer is pride in ones work which has to come from within and be supported from without. There is no dollar amount that will give you pride in what you do. There is a dollar amount that will give you a reason to get up to go to work but the pride has to come from within. I feel it is this pride that makes the difference between a good tech and a bad one. A boss will holler at a good tech till he is hoarse and that tech will still take the time to get the job done right because pride will let him do nothing less. A boss yells at a bad tech once and the tech will do as the boss asks because it doesn't matter to him, just keep the boss happy.


  10. #22
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    I've probably known 10 great techs in almost 50 years. Half the rest might have been challenged figure out most difficult problems and the rest might have had a brain wave.

    If schooling isn't the starting point with a tech they won't be able to build on new information. They can't process it. How do you explain a PT chart to someone who can't even spell it?
    In town there is a company that pays the techs to go to school and if they complete they get a check. Last I heard it was $25K. I don't know if this works but it might.
    The rest of the stuff that makes a tech is hard to teach except by example.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  11. #23
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    Considering I learned this trade without going to school and mostly without someone else teaching me until I was quite a ways into it AS well as being of the "newer" generation, I can say that the only reason I love HVAC/R is because of the technical aspects and the fact that it requires brains to do it properly.

    I started this kind of work when I was 17 and have been doing it since, learned how to weld and fabricate, learned plumbing, copper pipe, gas piping, burner controls, kitchen equipment, electrical work, and then HVAC and I like HVAC over all of it just because I feel it's more challenging than any other and it keeps me interested.

    I tend to get really super interested in something, learn about it, read about it, do it, get better, etc. until I feel like I hit a wall and I can't really progress from there at the same rate, then I pick up another subject and repeat it, I think if I wasn't learning something all the time, I would go crazy.

    Being 23 I feel that's probably true for a lot of people out there, maybe not though, I work with other guys close to my age and we are kind of in the same boat, we all want to BE interested and be better and learn more and understand what's going on.

    that's what drives me to learn and get better.

  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    Considering I learned this trade without going to school and mostly without someone else teaching me until I was quite a ways into it AS well as being of the "newer" generation, I can say that the only reason I love HVAC/R is because of the technical aspects and the fact that it requires brains to do it properly.

    I started this kind of work when I was 17 and have been doing it since, learned how to weld and fabricate, learned plumbing, copper pipe, gas piping, burner controls, kitchen equipment, electrical work, and then HVAC and I like HVAC over all of it just because I feel it's more challenging than any other and it keeps me interested.

    I tend to get really super interested in something, learn about it, read about it, do it, get better, etc. until I feel like I hit a wall and I can't really progress from there at the same rate, then I pick up another subject and repeat it, I think if I wasn't learning something all the time, I would go crazy.

    Being 23 I feel that's probably true for a lot of people out there, maybe not though, I work with other guys close to my age and we are kind of in the same boat, we all want to BE interested and be better and learn more and understand what's going on.

    that's what drives me to learn and get better.


    Your the exception. Tech head. The industry has a problem attracting people that can function at the necessary level. They go elsewhere.
    I have posted this analogy before but maybe it needs repeating. I'm not an athlete as in being really good at say shooting hoops. I could practice daily but still would be just ordinary. I might improve but it would not be what I should do.
    Too many techs are not doing what they should because they lack aptitude for the job. Like a natural athlete a natural tech is just really good at what they do. Anyone else just messes up the job.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  13. #25
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    ...and how do we get the necessary people into the industry who actually can do the work once we hang up out gauge sets?

    We have to offer them more money, so that this career is a good choice next to being in an office (or, Mom's basement) and writing code.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

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  14. #26
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    The problem here is that our youth does not have the chance to find out if they are natural mechanics or not. Used to be we had to work on our autos; you rarely see our youth working on their own car. I could cite other examples in this area.

    But the more important other problem is twofold. First is the smarty phones that allow them to sit in their bedroom and get satisfaction from communicating with others. Secondly, is the mass advertising by higher education, beginning in the 1970's, that you are worthless if you do not get higher education.


    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Your the exception. Tech head. The industry has a problem attracting people that can function at the necessary level. They go elsewhere.
    I have posted this analogy before but maybe it needs repeating. I'm not an athlete as in being really good at say shooting hoops. I could practice daily but still would be just ordinary. I might improve but it would not be what I should do.
    Too many techs are not doing what they should because they lack aptitude for the job. Like a natural athlete a natural tech is just really good at what they do. Anyone else just messes up the job.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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