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  1. #1
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    Bosch BOVA 2.0 vs other High Efficiency Inverter Heat Pump Units, Recommendations?

    Hello Guys, I'm new to this wonderful forum and finding it very educational. I'm learning as much as I can before deciding on a company and brand that will provide a fairly problem free lifespan for our home. Yet realizing the average heat pump will last about 10-15 years if we are lucky and it is maintained well.

    My last system lasted 11 years, a few ODU motors burned up and it was at the time of purchase a high end ODU: Trane Xi hooded with IDU: True Variable Speed air handler R22 system. I have to say, built like a tank for its time. Now Trane seemly has this entirely new more complex, molded IDU line called a TAM 9 Hyperion, similar ODU: inverter DC compressor with spine-fin coil and hooded unit, seems would be a direct comparison to the Bosch BOVA 2.0. In efficiencies theory, is what I'm thinking.

    But my question(s) meter goes off the charts; the ODU of the Trane has this spine-fin coil whereas the Bosch 2.0 seems to have this layered coil, like seen on a small car, is that called micro channel. The IDU on the Trane has a positive pressure true variable speed air handler, seems only American Standard does this, I can't find anyone else doing this type of configuration? The Trane could be better considering it also has a communicating thermostat, more outdoor surface area and indoor surface area?

    But I wonder how the Trane IDU TAM 9 Hyperion coil sweats; will it handle humidity better, hard to find these details?

    It would seem in my area of North East / Central PA, there are allot of good qualified companies that are really trying to push Bosch 1.0 / 2.0. Being made in China doesn't really concern me too much; everything is made overseas today and sadly in most cases superior manufacturing and QA.
    I'm sure the cost comparison has something to do with the price point compared to the major name brands and the fact that Bosch heats pumps are not as well known yet, at least in the area.

    As I'm seeing in some cases double the costs, for the big brand units. Big question are they worth the additional costs, how do you know what you should pay or when you’re just being over charged? I just seen it happen recently to a neighbor, paying double for a Bosch 1.0, sold on the idea it's a 18.5 seer unit, so they charged as much as the big name units. Whereas as you can buy this Bosch until yourself online and pay a local installer, so I’m 100% sure they overpaid. But let me be clear I do not want to do this, which could go bad fast.

    Do you still get what you pay for in the HVAC world or are things fairly similar today, function and reliability wise from manufacturer to manufacturer? Is it still buyer beware, should we get multiple quotes, make sure they do true load tests and measure duct work then get these with the given quotes, so you have proof of the load calculations and consistencies in the calculations?

    With so many changes, I'm not sure how you guys can keep up with it all.

    In the case of Bosch, I'm considering the Bosch BOVA 2.0, at this point, as it seems on paper to handle humidly better than the Bosch BOVA 1.0. The reason being on the IDU: 2.0's air handles has a low and high speed ECM, thus it should handle humidly better? It is also 100% aluminum coils so is this how they get the ratting higher, I think?

    But it's still a non-communicating ODU / IDU / Thermostat, so will it really work as well? I have seen that the Bosch 1.0 only sweats about 1/3 of the IDU coil on each side under a high humid day and then shuts off when the set temp is reached, then still having high humidly in the house as it’s not smart enough to run low to correctly control humidity or only on something called a forced mode, then the coil will fully sweat and correctly balance humidity in a home.

    Would' that not make it impossible to correctly control humidly with Bosch BOVA 1.0, if the IDU coil does not fully sweat and just shuts off when it reaches the set point of the thermostat, how can that control humidity correct at all? So for this reason, that has me greatly concerned, as in my mind that would be a problem on any hot humid days?

    Now the question is did they solve this issue with Bosch BOVA 2.0 or is it still the same, with the IDU only sweat 1/3 on each side until it reaches the set temp on the thermostat?

    What issues did they solve with Bosch BOVA 2.0?

    Here are the specs that have me considering Bosch BOVA 2.0 in the first place: Up to 20.5 SEER and 10.5 HSPF | ODU: 10 speed ECM as low as 56 dBA | IDU: Two stage x13 ECM blower for enhanced humidity control.

    Now let me close and end this mess I posted here with: I'm 100% open to any brand, trying to reduce the costs to heat and cool our home as it has no other source to do so.

    The other issue is I'm seeing costs exceeding almost double to install and setup a comparable efficiency rating by other big brands including Trane, American Standard, Tempstar TVH8 / FCM4X, and Carrier Green Speed ICP products, Lennox, daikin / Amana / Goodman ect. not sure yet of the full specs on their units or the brand to go after.

    But I think there are some major differences, when comparing the Bosch 2.0 unit, The key question, is it worth the massively different costs for the efficiency and then what does it take to maintain these newer so called smart systems over their lifespan.

    Are they a high maintenance as well, more complexity, more problems?

    It would seem a labor warranty is a must, but those don't go past 10-12 years and they seemly live and die with the company you hire. Too many good companies die in less time these days, so that is a risk in itself. Questions over, hope the above makes sense.

    Thanks for any help provided, it's greatly appreciated, and hopefully this post will helps others as well.

  2. #2
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    Not 100% sure but I don’t believe Bosch offers a manufacturers extended labor warranty like pretty much everyone else.

    Make sure they quote a AHRI matched system to get a true SEER, HSPF ratings ( on paper ) not by going by OD unit only, as the ID selection along with the OD unit gives you those numbers. Those numbers are not really real world, but at least it says they are installing energy star rated equipment and if your state or local utility company offers rebates you will need a AHRI number.

    I would ask bidding Contractors for some type of documentation that they are trained on some of those models you mentioned, as the install and set up and field troubleshooting are critical.

    How’s your current ductwork, is it sized correctly for those ultra high SEER models, as that affects efficiency so they tell me...

    Seeing your asking about over the top complicated bells and whistles systems, This part is tongue and check but has some merits, once the manufacturers parts warranty expire, and you need a circuit board as an example the Bosch, ( the circuit board looks massive at the OD unit ) for what it cost to troubleshoot, labor and parts cost, chances it will cost more for that one repair than actually purchasing a OD unit as a spare for the future, you get a NOS compressor, boards, motor, fan blade etc. etc.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 11-11-2019 at 09:23 AM.

  3. #3
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    A couple of clarifications:
    1. The Bosch is NOT micro chanel, it's mini tube.
    2. It's specifically designed not to be communicating because that's where so many others have issues. It uses the ID coil pressure/temperature as the sensor for inside. This is a simpler and more reliable design. That's a plus, not a negative.
    3. The control platform, the inverter and the compressor are Mitsubishi (on the 1.0), the world leader in inverter technology.

    Your main concern is in finding a contractor who is well-versed in this technology. There aren't that many around.

    The Bosch board will give out diagnostic readings for just about anything on that unit if the tech knows how to use it. We've been installing them for almost 3 years and they've been the most trouble-free brand we've had.
    Bob Boan


    ​You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.

  4. #4
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    double post please delete this post, not the thread, sorry
    Last edited by learn-hvac; 11-11-2019 at 10:22 AM. Reason: double post please delete this post, not the thread, sorry

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by learn-hvac View Post
    A couple of clarifications:
    1. The Bosch is NOT micro chanel, it's mini tube.
    2. It's specifically designed not to be communicating because that's where so many others have issues. It uses the ID coil pressure/temperature as the sensor for inside. This is a simpler and more reliable design. That's a plus, not a negative.
    3. The control platform, the inverter and the compressor are Mitsubishi (on the 1.0), the world leader in inverter technology.

    Your main concern is in finding a contractor who is well-versed in this technology. There aren't that many around.

    The Bosch board will give out diagnostic readings for just about anything on that unit if the tech knows how to use it. We've been installing them for almost 3 years and they've been the most trouble-free brand we've had.
    Hello Bob, thank you for your time today. The main issue is how does Bosch 2.0 handle humidity. Bosch BOVA 1.0 does not handle it well seemly in some cases, I have seen a few cases where people complain about a humid house because of how the ID coil sweats on only 1/3 of each side, until the thermostat reaches set temp.

    So I wonder if the Bosch BOVA 2.0 solved this issue now, with a low and high IDU fan speed and all aluminum coils? Otherwise we think it handles heating very well and can even be set to something called super heat or super cool, interesting setup and we know nothing about HVAC. But seemly built well, good quality compressors and fairly problem free for most. They are really pushing the Bosch brand around here, I'm sure it's costs related as well, in some case half the costs.

    Some issue is handling humidity, that even older units do not have, from talking to others around here. This is what my research shows anyway and even talked to a nearby neighbor who can't get their humidity under control with the Bosch BOVA 1.0 at all and they tried everything. So for that, we have our concerns with the Bosch units and most would when you read and see issues like this and no solution to solve it yet, other than recommending to them to install a whole house dehumidifier, which has it's own downsides.

    We personally would have zero interest in installing a whole house dehumidifier as we never needed one before, so we want to learn whatever can be learned, before deciding what to replace the Trane with, since my neighbor had the same unit, They went with a Bosch BOVA 1.0 and can't get this humidity issue solved after multiple visits, so it has us thinking hard about buying Bosch.

    Plus we are reading more about this on this forum as well. Seemly not an isolated issue.

    Thanks again so much for your time with this, it's hard to get straight answers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    Not 100% sure but I don’t believe Bosch offers a manufacturers extended labor warranty like pretty much everyone else.

    Make sure they quote a AHRI matched system to get a true SEER, HSPF ratings ( on paper ) not by going by OD unit only, as the ID selection along with the OD unit gives you those numbers. Those numbers are not really real world, but at least it says they are installing energy star rated equipment and if your state or local utility company offers rebates you will need a AHRI number.

    I would ask bidding Contractors for some type of documentation that they are trained on some of those models you mentioned, as the install and set up and field troubleshooting are critical.

    How’s your current ductwork, is it sized correctly for those ultra high SEER models, as that affects efficiency so they tell me...

    Seeing your asking about over the top complicated bells and whistles systems, This part is tongue and check but has some merits, once the manufacturers parts warranty expire, and you need a circuit board as an example the Bosch, ( the circuit board looks massive at the OD unit ) for what it cost to troubleshoot, labor and parts cost, chances it will cost more for that one repair than actually purchasing a OD unit as a spare for the future, you get a NOS compressor, boards, motor, fan blade etc. etc.

    So I take it, you thoughts are, it's too complex and your are just asking for issues with this high efficiencies units? Thanks again.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by learn-hvac View Post
    Hello Bob, thank you for your time today. The main issue is how does Bosch 2.0 handle humidity. Bosch BOVA 1.0 does not handle it well seemly in some cases, I have seen a few cases where people complain about a humid house because of how the ID coil sweats on only 1/3 of each side, until the thermostat reaches set temp.

    So I wonder if the Bosch BOVA 2.0 solved this issue now, with a low and high IDU fan speed and all aluminum coils? Otherwise we think it handles heating very well and can even be set to something called super heat or super cool, interesting setup and we know nothing about HVAC. But seemly built well, good quality compressors and fairly problem free for most. They are really pushing the Bosch brand around here, I'm sure it's costs related as well, in some case half the costs.

    Some issue is handling humidity, that even older units do not have, from talking to others around here. This is what my research shows anyway and even talked to a nearby neighbor who can't get their humidity under control with the Bosch BOVA 1.0 at all and they tried everything. So for that, we have our concerns with the Bosch units and most would when you read and see issues like this and no solution to solve it yet, other than recommending to them to install a whole house dehumidifier, which has it's own downsides.

    We personally would have zero interest in installing a whole house dehumidifier as we never needed one before, so we want to learn whatever can be learned, before deciding what to replace the Trane with, since my neighbor had the same unit, They went with a Bosch BOVA 1.0 and can't get this humidity issue solved after multiple visits, so it has us thinking hard about buying Bosch.

    Plus we are reading more about this on this forum as well. Seemly not an isolated issue.

    Thanks again so much for your time with this, it's hard to get straight answers.
    This is why I cautioned about getting a well-versed tech. The tech is 95% of the equation and they're few and far between.

    There are many other issues besides the equipment that can cause high humidity levels. We've NEVER had a high humidity issue which any Bosch that we've installed. I've tried to help one or two on here who have, but it's not easy doing it over the Internet.

    We had one HO call back this summer after we installed a Bosch and he said the humidity and temps in the house were much better but he had moisture all over the insulation in his crawl space. He tried to blame it on the Bosch! I talked with him for over 1/2 an hour and explained how it could not be caused by the system and what to look for elsewhere. He called back about week later and said all his foundation vents were open and that was the issue. That was one of the first things I told him to look at, but he wanted to argue about it and dismiss it since he thought his issue began when the Bosch was installed.

    My point is: no matter how much a HO educates himself (which is a good thing), he usually doesn't have all the facts and he assumes the installer did everything correctly. He then comes to the conclusion that the equipment is to blame and begins to post it online. Others read it and take that everything he says is accurate. A patently false assumption.
    Bob Boan


    ​You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.

  8. #8
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    Buying a extended labor warranty from the manufacturers to me anyway is better than purchasing one from the Contractor, as your stuck with them for the duration of the contract, and certainly the going out of business thing vs the backed by the manufacturers extended labor warranty. If the initial installing Contractor goes out of business, you would have to find another Contractor that participates in that program. I don’t believe you can use any Contractor, as there is a set fee that the manufacturers dictates, and possible trip charges are not in the Contract. You would need to get the specific on manufacturers extended labor worries from the manufacturers of choose or even see if the bidding Contractors even participates in them.

    I used to participate in extended labor warranties, and there was a local flat labor fee I had to agree on, believe it was lower, not sure if it included a trip charge, so speaking with some experience here. Granted that was years ago, things can change.

    All I’m saying is I don’t believe Bosch offers them on the BOVA, if that’s a slight sticking point for you, again I certainly could be wrong.

    I never said avoid those systems, just need to be aware that they are more complicated systems with many specialized parts ( compared to a simpler design with less functioning non specialized parts ) right or wrong, just going by the odds of higher failure in the future and chances of costlier repairs once parts warranty is over. Certainly correct set up with correct ductwork and commissioning of system to manufacturers specifications goes a long way thou. I get the better efficiency and better humidity control and what not on those systems you mentioned.

    Any of them mention rebates for installing energy star rated matching equipment ?

    What did all of these bidding Contractors say about your existing ductwork, needs modifications? sealing? everything looks great? it’s sized correctly? no hot/cold spots in your residence now?

    I tip my hat to you for doing your part to keeping the global economy going by purchasing your next system soon.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 11-11-2019 at 12:30 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobboan View Post
    This is why I cautioned about getting a well-versed tech. The tech is 95% of the equation and they're few and far between.
    I agreed, finding that 10% takes great research.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobboan View Post
    There are many other issues besides the equipment that can cause high humidity levels. We've NEVER had a high humidity issue which any Bosch that we've installed. I've tried to help one or two on here who have, but it's not easy doing it over the Internet.
    Yeah I would think it's very hard to tell a non tech how to solve an issue like others are reporting, the big question is if they never had high humidity and as soon as they replaced their old system they do?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobboan View Post
    We had one HO call back this summer after we installed a Bosch and he said the humidity and temps in the house were much better but he had moisture all over the insulation in his crawl space. He tried to blame it on the Bosch! I talked with him for over 1/2 an hour and explained how it could not be caused by the system and what to look for elsewhere. He called back about week later and said all his foundation vents were open and that was the issue. That was one of the first things I told him to look at, but he wanted to argue about it and dismiss it since he thought his issue began when the Bosch was installed.
    I'm sure there are many variables and some will just not listen no matter what you say. But from my findings, these home owners that now have high humidity never did until they installed the Bosch BOVA 1.0.

    So is it a design issue with a single speed IDU fan speed that is on or off and does not communicate with the thermostat for humidity settings?

    Again they are stating Bosch BOVA 2.0 handles humidity better, it's in their own documentation. But I really wonder how and what did they addressed in the Bosch BOVA 2.0?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobboan View Post
    My point is: no matter how much a HO educates himself (which is a good thing), he usually doesn't have all the facts and he assumes the installer did everything correctly. He then comes to the conclusion that the equipment is to blame and begins to post it online. Others read it and take that everything he says is accurate. A patently false assumption.
    What I'm after is more of can Bosch BOVA 2.0 work better than the Bosch BOVA 1.0 vs in some cases the double the fee similar seer hspf rated big brand name systems. I really would love to save the money if possible and that is why I came here to learn what others know about the Bosch BOVA 2.0.

    I'm sure the big brands will do a great job, but are they really worth the $12-$14k price tag vs Bosch from the same installers?

    That is the #1 reason I'm digging online hard, why and how can Bosch be so much less and still claim to have the safe energy star rating 20 Seer 10.5 HSPF and be just as efficient as a Trane high end or other big brand name at almost half the costs?

    Thanks again for you help...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    Buying a extended labor warranty from the manufacturers to me anyway is better than purchasing one from the Contractor, as your stuck with them for the duration of the contract, and certainly the going out of business thing vs the backed by the manufacturers extended labor warranty. If the initial installing Contractor goes out of business, you would have to find another Contractor that participates in that program. I don’t believe you can use any Contractor, as there is a set fee that the manufacturers dictates, and possible trip charges are not in the Contract. You would need to get the specific on manufacturers extended labor worries from the manufacturers of choose or even see if the bidding Contractors even participates in them.

    I used to participate in extended labor warranties, and there was a local flat labor fee I had to agree on, believe it was lower, not sure if it included a trip charge, so speaking with some experience here. Granted that was years ago, things can change.
    So Trane tells me if they are a certified installed, the extended warranty lives and dies with the system and can be transferred for at a one time fee of $99 after the sale of the home within 30 days. All fees, including drive time are fully covered even on holidays.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    All I’m saying is I don’t believe Bosch offers them on the BOVA, if that’s a slight sticking point for you, again I certainly could be wrong.
    You are correct, they do not, that I can find and home warranties are crap paper at best, I had one and what a hassle, never again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    I never said avoid those systems, just need to be aware that they are more complicated systems with many specialized parts ( compared to a simpler design with less functioning non specialized parts ) right or wrong, just going by the odds of higher failure in the future and chances of costlier repairs once parts warranty is over. Certainly correct set up with correct ductwork and commissioning of system to manufacturers specifications goes a long way thou. I get the better efficiency and better humidity control and what not on those systems you mentioned.
    It's very confusing but Bosch seems to have the best price even compared to entry level Goodmans and others that are considered base level 13-14 SEER single stage systems. So is this the best bang for dollar in a 20 seer 10.5 HSPF rating that is AHRI rated and fully qualify for all rebates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    Any of them mention rebates for installing energy star rated matching equipment ?

    What did all of these bidding Contractors say about your existing ductwork, needs modifications? sealing? everything looks great? it’s sized correctly? no hot/cold spots in your residence now?

    I tip my hat to you for doing your part to keeping the global economy going by purchasing your next system soon.
    Yes on the first point, all systems we are looking at qualify for rebates.

    Load test look good, they all stated the same, we are sized correctly with the old Trane R22 system, they did laser measuring, checked and measured dutwork, checked insulation, windows, square footage and UV loads on walls, floor, roof and everything else I would think is way overkill, but I guess needed to correctly quote the work?

    No need to tip your hat to us, we are like any HO, just trying to find out what we can about a product type, since the costs seem to be so much lower than anything else, it raises red flags. We know very little about, but the need is here and thus trying to decide if maybe timing is key here, and question will it do what it says it does.

    In this regard sir I thank you for any help being offered, it's great appreciated.

  11. #11
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    “ It's very confusing but Bosch seems to have the best price even compared to entry level Goodmans and others that are considered base level 13-14 SEER single stage systems. So is this the best bang for dollar in a 20 seer 10.5 HSPF rating that is AHRI rated and fully qualify for all rebates? “

    I would think the 100% manufacturered in China, along with the Air Handlers has got something to do with it, it’s not like those Chinese workers make anywhere near what a manufacturered in the USA labor rates are.

    You sure you don’t want to consider purchasing a new Bosch OD unit from the internet, delivered to your doorsteps ( liftgate service ) and chances no tax as a NOS spare for future use, heck you probably can even purchase a uncased coil that is the same coil used on the Air Handler and you'll probably still pay less upfront overall than those big name brands you mentioned and your system will last 20+ years easily, be a selling point for new owners down the road if you sell your residence also.....
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 11-12-2019 at 12:01 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    “ It's very confusing but Bosch seems to have the best price even compared to entry level Goodmans and others that are considered base level 13-14 SEER single stage systems. So is this the best bang for dollar in a 20 seer 10.5 HSPF rating that is AHRI rated and fully qualify for all rebates? “

    I would think the 100% manufacturered in China, along with the Air Handlers has got something to do with it, it’s not like those Chinese workers make anywhere near what a manufacturered in the USA labor rates are.

    You sure you don’t want to consider purchasing a new Bosch OD unit from the internet, delivered to your doorsteps ( liftgate service ) and chances no tax as a NOS spare for future use, heck you probably can even purchase a uncased coil that is the same coil used on the Air Handler and you'll probably still pay less upfront overall than those big name brands you mentioned and your system will last 20+ years easily, be a selling point for new owners down the road if you sell your residence also.....
    Agreed on all points, hence why I'm digging hard here, but I know I don't want to buy another outdoor unit as a backup, that just seems silly to me, plus they are something around $ just for the ODU, I would not call that a bargain basement deal. Then there is the where do I store that thing, so that is out on all cases. (o;
    Last edited by beenthere; 11-12-2019 at 08:03 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by learn-hvac View Post
    Agreed on all points, hence why I'm digging hard here, but I know I don't want to buy another outdoor unit as a backup, that just seems silly to me, plus they are something around $**** just for the ODU, I would not call that a bargain basement deal. Then there is the where do I store that thing, so that is out on all cases. (o;
    What's there warranty policy for on line sales?

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