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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase View Post
    I do get that no restriction might cause a blower to overload with blowing a lot of air. But why then am I reading that dirty or clog air filters are big reason that motors fail. Isn't a dirty filter kind of the same a a high MERV filter. It restricts air flow causing

    And I'm not following your statement "How come you did "not" give us some measurements (temp/%RH) return/supply before jumping off the deep end" . In what way did I jump off the deep end? I just followed the advice of putting a filter in to decrease air flow which might help reduce humidity. I didn't even put a high MERV filter in as recommended. Not following "jumping off the deep end". Do you mean putting in a filter was jumping off the deep end? , or that I now believing the filter and restricted air flow caused the motor to stop working is jumping off the deep end?
    My mistake on missing "not", knowing the actual temp/%RH in and out of the a/c would tell us is the air is high or low.
    Many comments are intended to sell filters.
    Find a knowledgeable tech get your motor changed. Have him check your a/c coil temperature. Ideally, suggest 30^F lower than the return air temperature. If you want 75^F, 50%RH, a 55^F dew point, suggest a 45^F coil temperature.
    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  2. #28
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    Jan 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase View Post
    Pecmsg I'm not trying to blame anyone here. I'm trying to figure out if the restricted air due to adding a filter, which restricts more air than the filter supplied by the manufacture, caused my motor to fail.

    While we determined that the AC is probably over sized for the unit how do you know the ducts are undersized. They are probably perfectly size as the unit has been working without a hitch for 6 years. I was just trying to figure out a good way to lower the humidity. To the average person it would seem more than a coincidence that after adding a filter the motor stopped working. The return sides there is no duct, its just suck up air from the living room, there is no way for it to be undersized.

    And as I mentioned, other thread are saying that adding more resistance, for example a 1" inch pleated Merv filter is not good for these systems. They restrict air flow too much. Which can make the motor hotter, which can cause it to fail.
    Perfectly sized ducts in residential, are very few and very far between.

    Probably most of your supplies are 6".
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  3. #29
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    Nov 2019
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    My mistake on missing "not", knowing the actual temp/%RH in and out of the a/c would tell us is the air is high or low.
    Many comments are intended to sell filters.
    Find a knowledgeable tech get your motor changed. Have him check your a/c coil temperature. Ideally, suggest 30^F lower than the return air temperature. If you want 75^F, 50%RH, a 55^F dew point, suggest a 45^F coil temperature.
    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Teddy I understand giving you more measurements , return/supply, would have allowed you to give a better diagnosis and recommendation.
    But are you saying "jumping off the deep end" is putting in a higher Merv filter? Is that the last thing that should ever be done? A last resort sort of remedy? Because I took it as an easy fix that I could do quickly by myself at no risk?
    Or by "jumping off the deep end"' do you mean my though that the air filter caused the motor to fail, is Jumping off the deep end?

  4. #30
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    Nov 2019
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Perfectly sized ducts in residential, are very few and very far between.

    Probably most of your supplies are 6".
    The three smallest supplies are 12" by 6" rectangles, the largest is 20" by 6" . Hard to see inside the wall but the way they set it up the longest run/branches are 10 feet, most shorter. I am not an expert but those seem fairly well sized especially for short runs.
    The return has no duct just sucking up as much air as it needs directly form the living room

  5. #31
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    Aug 2002
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    Southold, NY
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    Condos are generally built with the same size units and duct layouts. The GC doesn’t care if it’s right fist that it’s cheap.

    You can ASSUME anything you want. Has static pressure been measured.

  6. #32
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    Nov 2019
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Condos are generally built with the same size units and duct layouts. The GC doesn’t care if it’s right fist that it’s cheap.

    You can ASSUME anything you want. Has static pressure been measured.
    Agreed people can assume anything. Curious how can you ASSUME that adding that filter didnt cause the motor to fail?

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase View Post
    Agreed people can assume anything. Curious how can you ASSUME that adding that filter didnt cause the motor to fail?
    Because your looking for someone / Something to blame.

  8. #34
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    Nov 2019
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Because your looking for someone / Something to blame.
    Looking to blame someone will accomplish nothing as there is no recourse. And the motor is done and needs to be fixed so I have to do it. I'm just confused why everyone on here is saying there is no possible way the filter did that. When from what I'm finding out is it is a very possible cause.

    I've posted to two other DIY forums that have AC/HVAC sub forums. I explained that I added a filter and the first two replies to separate forums was this was a bad idea.

    1- "reducing airflow by using a highly restrictive filter causes the motor to run hot and you run the risk of the evap coil freezing"

    2-"These motors are very susceptible to poor airflow. The restrictive filter may have caused the failure."

    all I'm saying is that recommending a restrictive filter is probably not a good suggestion, and definitely MAY have caused my motor to over heat. Its not trying to blame, its trying to get to the bottom of this, and follow the logic, and hopefully prevent someone else from having this end result

    I get the impression from the replies here that there is no way the filter caused this. Where as I place it over 50% that it did. I'm not saying 100% but there seems to be a good chance.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase View Post
    Looking to blame someone will accomplish nothing as there is no recourse. And the motor is done and needs to be fixed so I have to do it. I'm just confused why everyone on here is saying there is no possible way the filter did that. When from what I'm finding out is it is a very possible cause.

    I've posted to two other DIY forums that have AC/HVAC sub forums. I explained that I added a filter and the first two replies to separate forums was this was a bad idea.

    1- "reducing airflow by using a highly restrictive filter causes the motor to run hot and you run the risk of the evap coil freezing"

    2-"These motors are very susceptible to poor airflow. The restrictive filter may have caused the failure."

    all I'm saying is that recommending a restrictive filter is probably not a good suggestion, and definitely MAY have caused my motor to over heat. Its not trying to blame, its trying to get to the bottom of this, and follow the logic, and hopefully prevent someone else from having this end result

    I get the impression from the replies here that there is no way the filter caused this. Where as I place it over 50% that it did. I'm not saying 100% but there seems to be a good chance.
    Then don’t believe us, believe the other 2 sites

  10. #36
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase View Post
    Pecmsg I'm not trying to blame anyone here.

    I'm trying to figure out if the restricted air due to adding a filter,
    which restricts more air than the filter supplied by the manufacture,
    caused my motor to fail.

    While we determined that the AC is probably over sized for the unit
    how do you know the ducts are undersized.
    They are probably perfectly size as the unit has been working without a hitch for 6 years.

    I was just trying to figure out a good way to lower the humidity.
    To the average person it would seem more than a coincidence that after adding a filter the motor stopped working.
    The return sides there is no duct, its just suck up air from the living room,
    there is no way for it to be undersized.

    And as I mentioned,
    other thread are saying that adding more resistance,
    for example a 1" inch pleated Merv filter is not good for these systems.
    They restrict air flow too much.
    Which can make the motor hotter, which can cause it to fail.
    I DO NOT BELIEVE at-This-point that adding a properly sized MERV 7 filter,
    AND running for just a few days
    was THE MAJOR Contributor
    to the presumed failure of a 6 Year Old 1/3 HP EC Motor.

    What was the measured air flow prior to adding the MERV 7 filter?
    _____ 980 CFM ?
    What was the measured air flow AFTER adding the MERV 7 filter?
    _____ _________ 940 CFM ?

    [ Post # 14: Put in a FPR 4 Filter - equal to about a MERV 7. ]

    Or, did the E.S.P. increase from 0.4" to 0.8"?

    Are ECM's only capable to operate in such a fragile Environment ?

    Did the motor fail or did the motor Controller die?

    Did the motor contactor fail?

    IF the Root Cause(s) of the failure is(are) not precisely identified,
    Multiple replacements could be future HARD-KNOCKS expen$es.
    Last edited by dan sw fl; 11-18-2019 at 06:36 AM.
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    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  11. #37
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    Fix the motor and operate with merv 7 filter. Measure the results. End the discussion.
    ECM motors are easier to adjust the air flow???

    Good tech will get to the bottom of this!
    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

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