Hard start and PTC soft start

[Mars65]

I was wondering if soft start can be replaced with a hard start kit I think the name is PTC start assist on a Manitowoc I paid 80.00 dollars for this little capacitor and it’s getting hot or some reason checked amps perfect has any one tried to change this any thoughts or facts

[pageyjim]

I was wondering if soft start can be replaced with a hard start kit I think the name is PTC start assist on a Manitowoc I paid 80.00 dollars for this little capacitor and it’s getting hot or some reason checked amps perfect has any one tried to change this any thoughts or facts

It may be OK to use it temporarily until the proper part is installed. It is normal for them to heat up after first use. They work fine the first time then not as well after they are in the circuit. They will work OK again after the unit is off and it cools down again. They work better when there is a delay on make timer. Why was the original part replaced? That is pricey for that part. Not really the best choice for ice machines imo.

[Mars65]

It may be OK to use it temporarily until the proper part is installed. It is normal for them to heat up after first use. They work fine the first time then not as well after they are in the circuit. They will work OK again after the unit is off and it cools down again. They work better when there is a delay on make timer. Why was the original part replaced? That is pricey for that part. Not really made for ice machines imo.

It seems to be an original part I don’t think it was added


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[pageyjim]

It seems to be an original part I don’t think it was added


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If it's an original replacement then it's fine and working normal. That would explain the price for it too I guess. It is probably just a PTCR. You can search for it here or google it for more info but it sounds normal for what you describe. I imagine it looks like a little keg right?

[Mars65]

If it's an original replacement then it's fine and working normal. That would explain the price for it too I guess. It is probably just a PTCR. You can search for it here or google it for more info but it sounds normal for what you describe. I imagine it looks like a little keg right?

Yes sir you are right


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[timebuilder]

I would wean yourself away from using the terms "hard" and "soft." They don't really apply as you have used them.

Typically, a "hard start kit" is for a compressor that is hard to start. It is not a reference to the start components.

Both PTC and either potential or current relay setups are "start components," but the PTC is a cheap approach that has a VERY long cool down time after the initial use until it is able to assist in starting the compressor again. A potential relay works each and every time it is energized. Current relays have largely been replaced by the cheap PTC devices.

The better idea is to say "start device," and specify the type being discussed.

A "soft start" refers to a type of VFD drive that slowly begins to rotate a motor by ramping up to the prescribed operating speed.

[Mars65]

They were called soft starts before vfds were invented

[pageyjim]

They were called soft starts before vfds were invented

I think there is some confusion in the industry concerning start kits-devices. Just because a company labels something a "soft start" doesn't necessarily mean that it is one imo. I don't know if you have 20 years in or are somewhat experienced with fewer years in but many in the trade will judge you in how you phrase things. Just the way it is. I think you may find the link below somewhat informative. I don't think it addresses the vfd drives TB was rightly talking about.

https://www.hvacrschool.com/this-is-not-a-soft-start/

[2sac]

It's a ptcr and it's supposed to get hot. It's not a capacitor, it's a relay that drops out on resistance created by heat.

[pageyjim]

It's a ptcr and it's supposed to get hot

I think he knows that from the first time it was stated.

[2sac]

I think he knows that from the first time it was stated.

I posted before I had a complete thought

[VTP99]

I think he knows that from the first time it was stated.

I don't know about that, I read that as a question as to why it was getting hot.

[VTP99]

it’s getting hot for some reason checked amps perfect

Here ^^^^^
P.S. I add the presumably " f " to or .

[timebuilder]

I think you can still view Payson's video on YouTube where he compares a ptcr type start component to an actual potential relay start component, and he shows how unreliable the ptcr is for attempting to provide assistance to start a compressor.

Maybe...just maybe.... it is possible that some people have used the term "soft start" to describe a ptcr device, but over the past 20 years I have only seen "soft start" associated with a device which ramps up a blower motor from a dead stop to full speed to avoid the jarring loads and sounds produced by the sudden engagement of a high horsepower 3-phase blower motor.

[pageyjim]

Here ^^^^^

That was already addressed also.

" It is normal for them to heat up after first use. They work fine the first time then not as well after they are in the circuit. They will work OK again after the unit is off and it cools down again. They work better when there is a delay on make timer. "

[VTP99]

That's your quote not his. Let's assume he understands it.
These work fine on ice machines I rarely have any issues with them.
It's not like a a/c unit that can short cycle.
Ice machine compressors come on and stay on until their bin is full.

[2sac]

That's your quote not his. Let's assume he understands it.
These work fine on ice machines I rarely have any issues with them.
It's not like a a/c unit that can short cycle.
Ice machine compressors come on and stay on until their bin is full.

Carrier used them for a short stint on their units as well. They like to start on fire

[pageyjim]

That's your quote not his. Let's assume he understands it.
These work fine on ice machines I rarely have any issues with them.
It's not like a a/c unit that can short cycle.
Ice machine compressors come on and stay on until their bin is full.

They can't short cycle? That is like saying a comfort ac stays on until the thermostat is satisfied. Ice machines don't have pressure switches or get dirty coils etc?

[VTP99]

Carrier used them for a short stint on their units as well. They like to start on fire

Yep, I've replaced them on Carrier's with hard start kits.

[VTP99]

They can't short cycle? That is like saying a comfort ac stays on until the thermostat is satisfied. Ice machines don't have pressure switches or get dirty coils etc?

No where close to comfort cooling. They slow down on production typically. Try shutting off a condenser fan motor on a a/c unit and see what you get. Ice machines do it every harvest.