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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by strogen View Post
    So I gotta come clean on the 'bull-dogged' tee term..... a senior moment on a Sunday night.

    It would be great if booze, or a woman, were a part of my excuse, but sadly no.

    Of course bull-headed tee is the term, and damn there was conviction with using bull-dogged tee. It's a damn shame when one wants to contribute, especially with such a great and professional group, yet the mind fails to connect all the dots with the thoughts at hand. It's becoming a habit.

    So, sorry everybody for the confusion. The intent was there, the message was appropriate, and thanks for not coming down hard on the old timer.

    If anybody goes looking for me, I'll be in the corner with a box of crayons...
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  2. #28
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    I just thought it was a regional term. If I, or people, came down on me every time I misspoke or had a brain fart, I’d be in that same corner but eating the box of crayons.
    If I do a job in 30 minutes it's because I spent 30 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.

  3. #29
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    It is a common term understood by many.

    Bullhead Tee

    "A bullhead tee fitting is one of the most common fitting used in pipe and tube fitting. Bull head pipe tees are those type of pipe tees where the "branch pipe" connection is of a larger diameter than the straight through "run" connections."

    http://www.thepipefittings.com/bullhead-tee.html
    Signature removed Violated rule #15

  4. #30
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    Sep 2002
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    I didn't take it that way at all. In fact; I was curious about being able to learn a new term. <g>

    PHM
    -------


    Quote Originally Posted by strogen View Post
    So I gotta come clean on the 'bull-dogged' tee term..... a senior moment on a Sunday night.

    It would be great if booze, or a woman, were a part of my excuse, but sadly no.

    Of course bull-headed tee is the term, and damn there was conviction with using bull-dogged tee. It's a damn shame when one wants to contribute, especially with such a great and professional group, yet the mind fails to connect all the dots with the thoughts at hand. It's becoming a habit.

    So, sorry everybody for the confusion. The intent was there, the message was appropriate, and thanks for not coming down hard on the old timer.

    If anybody goes looking for me, I'll be in the corner with a box of crayons...
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #31
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    Aug 2004
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    S.E. Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Is that really the only correct installation?

    That is: a natural draft gas water heater must have a 3' vertical vent pipe section before the first 90 ?

    Oh wait; or do you mean that to come directly off the draft hood with a 90 would be OK - so long as the 90 and subsequent venting run was 4" ?

    PHM
    --------
    I think I'm just about the only guy in the US that actually reads the gas code :-). You can do what you want and it may work because it's gonna do what it wants to regardless of what some book or chart says. However, if it doesn't and there's an Ooops! then the codes and stds. will be wielded like a sword. FYI, those sizing charts in the gas codes (provided by GAMA) are merely calculations based upon limited parameters. They are based upon interior chimneys only. Note the first line starts with a 12" vent rise--not a 90 off the draft hood. So, it's unchartered territory. I can tell you a 90 off a draft hood is suicide but so is a draft hood. I can assure you increasing the diameter of the connector definitely reduces spillage especially during that first minute of firing. I do venting for a living. I investigate venting gone wrong. Do you wanna know my list of stupid stuff we do that should be outlawed? That would be a full time blog but I'll share a few:
    Draft hoods should be outlawed. Take the NCI course but they were not designed for modern weatherized homes and unfortunately they work very well as designed--they decouple the chimney from the appliance and allow Backdrafting BY DESIGN!
    We allow common venting of atmospherically vented appliances without functional draft controls or functional spill protection devices
    We allow contractors to install grossly oversized heaters that have no way of venting up the ubiquitous "8"x8" tile lined flue. Then they add a draft hood equipped water heater to the same flue and wonder why the grommets melt on the top of the water heater from the Backdrafting.
    We have guys replacing heaters with atmospherically vented appliances without so much as looking into the base of the chimney to see if it is properly lined much less not blocked, much less properly constructed-- NONE are in the Northeast. I'm sick of finding all these vent connectors rotted out in the wall that is a loose pile of rubble with "bad stuff" leaking into the building. We're poisoning ourselves with our homes and equipment but feel good because it has a higher efficiency so you're postponing the death of our planet. We common vent water heaters to boilers that should have an indirect tank or separate power vented unit. Why? That's insane! For once I"d really like to see a pair of test holes drilled into the vent connector in the proper places indicating someone trained in what to do actually did it so that numbers on the service tag might actually be valid. Oh, yes, all you oil heads need to post the pump pressure on the service tag because it makes a HUGE impact on the venting. Allow me this: NEVER, EVER think of installing a combustion appliance into an 8x8 tile lined flue in a home if that appliance has a vent collar greater than 6" or is common vented with another appliance. We need the right people writing the codes because we have puppets bought and paid by the lobbyist such as the Fire Chiefs who pushed to dummy UL listed CO alarms just to take the pressure off their call volumes vs. manpower. Now our codes require unreliable UL listed death alarms as these same monsters lobby to outlaw low level monitors that can actually protect you from CO poisoning. A UL listed alarm does not. It is designed to alert only once you've inhaled sufficient CO to meet the medical definition of CO poisoning. I have found less than 5% of all draft hood equipped water heaters are improperly installed. We're plodding along like sheep not thinking about what we're doing. We replace air conditioning and heating without the home being weatherized, the ducts properly sized and sealed and size the system off calculations. Ok, rant over.

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  7. #32
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    Dec 2004
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    Caledonia WI
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    Thread Starter
    I've been in the hvac trades for over 40 years and I could probably count on one finger seeing a waterheater vented correctly and that was probably by "mistake"... Most use the hole that's already there like it was ordained by God himself and can't be moved, even when installing a liner. And add into the mix that waterheaters got taller for efficiency and still the hole stayed the same height...
    It's not what you're capable of doing that defines you, it's what you do on a daily basis.

  8. #33
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    Feb 2011
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    Thank you for all the encouraging posts guys!

    After you learn refrigeration, fixing an A/C is like a walk in a park under shade trees

  9. #34
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    Jan 2012
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    So is this wrong, lol? This was done by a local chimney 'expert' lining the chimney (not Hearthman's company).
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    If I do a job in 30 minutes it's because I spent 30 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.

  10. #35
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    May 2014
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    Bay Area California
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    Water heater says warranty. So that's good. Right?
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  11. #36
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    Jan 2012
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    Broomall, PA
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    Lol...I constantly see this in my area, giant reducer, tee into heating oil flue pipe.
    If I do a job in 30 minutes it's because I spent 30 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.

  12. #37
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    What's with the 20 amp wire spliced in above the washing machine?
    Signature removed Violated rule #15

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    What's with the 20 amp wire spliced in above the washing machine?
    Who knows, 'not my yob'. That was one of about 6 I saw.
    Last winter I told her the oil-fired furnace was done. Need new furnace, chimney liner,etc. Said she has a guy.
    Came back yesterday to find chimney lined & flue pipe like that, same furnace, but she got a new kitchen instead.
    Maybe she can use the oven for heat if the furnace takes a poop.
    If I do a job in 30 minutes it's because I spent 30 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEusaPA View Post
    Who knows, 'not my yob'. That was one of about 6 I saw.
    Last winter I told her the oil-fired furnace was done. Need new furnace, chimney liner,etc. Said she has a guy.
    Came back yesterday to find chimney lined & flue pipe like that, same furnace, but she got a new kitchen instead.
    Maybe she can use the oven for heat if the furnace takes a poop.
    Dress like this next time you step foot in that place. Except carry a personal CO detector too.

    Funny, she has a gas water heater, oil furnace and an electric dryer.

    Signature removed Violated rule #15

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