REME HALO-LED

[nicu2001]

Looks like a new LED version with zero ozone is coming out. I was about to install a regular REME HALO in my home but this is coming out end of November. Would it be a good idea to wait? Any thoughts? Thank you!!

https://www.rgf.com/products/air/hal...-air-purifier/

[randyf]

Thanks for the pointer. This device has piqued my interest.

As far as VOCs goes testing with GC/MS and PID meters in homes is the only way to know
Unfortunately RGF is is unlikely to provide the sort of testing needed - Before and after test with GC/MS and PID meters in real homes with typical mix of VOCs.

What they have provided in the past - Test of a single VOC at unusually high concentration in a large fish tank - is Not the final determination. Often these tests show remarkable results. They just don't translate to real homes. I learned this by testing the MoleKule which also uses UVA LEDs.

Still I will consider buying one test. The device will definitely Not produce any ozone. UV LEDS only produce UVA radiation which means no ozone.

Will this device still produce Hydrogen Peroxide which RGF claimed was the magic sauce in the HALO? If not will it be as effective (if it even was effective) as the HALO?
Is this new device just a quick response to the MoleKule (which doesn't work) and Bird device?

Thanks again for for link.

[Chuck]

Snake oil.

[nicu2001]

Will this device still produce Hydrogen Peroxide which RGF claimed was the magic sauce in the HALO? If not will it be as effective (if it even was effective) as the HALO?
Is this new device just a quick response to the MoleKule (which doesn't work) and Bird device?

I asked RGF and their response was:

"The LED unit utilizes the same technology which we incorporate into all our products."

Kind of vague and I do not see mention of hydro-peroxides on the LED description like on the regular HALO description.

[randyf]

I asked RGF and their response was:

"The LED unit utilizes the same technology which we incorporate into all our products."

Kind of vague and I do not see mention of hydro-peroxides on the LED description like on the regular HALO description.

Thanks for inquiring.

Not only vague but BS. Probably talking from someone in sales/marketing. He may not know better.
But
- UV Leds only radiate in the UVA frequency range. This frequency range does not produce Ozone.
- The HALO uses a UVC blub that does radiate in the UVC frequency range and produces Ozone.

Recently PCO devices have come on market that use UVA LEDs. No ozone and much longer life span. But effectiveness destroying VOCs is unknown - despite any claims by manufacturers.

Classic PCO (photo catalytic oxidation) works as follows:
1. UV photons radiate a catalyst that produces a very short lived, very reactive compound called - Hydorxyls.
2. Hydroxyls break down the carbon/hydrogen bounds in VOCs
3. VOCs are then converted to H20 and CO2.
See -https://www.explainthatstuff.com/how-photocatalytic-air-purifiers-work.html

Of course all the above is in a perfect world and perfect worlds don't exist.
POTENTIAL problems include
- partial break down products that are more toxic than the original VOC
- excess Ozone
- Only works at very high VOC levels. Not the levels we find in our home.

Still PCO technology has been verified and studied in academic laboratories for decades. It's not hocus pocus although some/all commercial implementations might be.

BUT - Commercial implementations, RGF, MOLEKULE and dozen or so other companies have not adequately demonstrated effectiveness in Real living spaces - homes.
Most of the evidence comes from test chamber the size on big fish tanks, with unusual mixtures and concentrations of VOC - not the type of pollutants we find in our homes.

RGF - to their credit- did a spin off on classic PCO with the HALO.
They used UVC and a catalyst to produce Hydrogen Peroxide and Ozone that spews in the living space. The claim being that a much larger area will be covered. With Classic PCO all the action happens at the catalyst, not in the living space. Don't know if this claim was bullshit or not but a lot of folks reported positive results. Could be many reports are just confusing the smell of ozone with clean air. I don't know because there are no reports of before and after VOC reading with objective test gear in real rooms.

[Strawbearlyjamm]

Of course all the above is in a perfect world and perfect worlds don't exist.
POTENTIAL problems include
- partial break down products that are more toxic than the original VOC
- excess Ozone
- Only works at very high VOC levels. Not the levels we find in our home.

Have you gotten to do any testing yet? We would like to install a unit that has an added filtration system of some sort to improve the IAQ of our home. This version seems to fit the bill, but your point about the partial breakdown of VOCs is quite concerning.

[randyf]

Haven't tested the new RGF device yet.
Here's my suggestion for you:

Determine if you even have a VOC issue.

Use the service of https://homeaircheck.com/products/ or https://homeaircheck.com/products/
Both companies will provide a test kit to take a sample. You return and in a week you will have results. If you levels are below 500ng/liter, you do not have a problem. Other wise you might. IMHO - its advisable to see if you have issues before spending money to remediate, especially with gear that is undetermined to work.

If your worried about particulates these can be effectively handled by low cost HEPA filters or even the return air filters you are currently using.

What are particulates - https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/p...zes-d_934.html. Fascinating.

I'll be interested in seeing how this plays our on your end.

Good luck and please post any followup you might have.

[Strawbearlyjamm]

Thanks. We are getting a new system installed next week with aeroseal and insulation. We decided to pass and purchase higher quality system air filters and to be more diligent with changing them.

[randyf]

Sounds good.

I've really been impressed with the aeroseal process. I've heard from reputable source of remarkable results.

Once all is said and done you should have any concerns with particulates. Just keep in mind that particulates and VOCs are two different animals.

If you do decide to ever test for VOCs, in addition to the resources I mentioned, check out these guys.
https://www.assaytech.com/

Should be cheaper and accurate but with less specificity.

[dandy1]

Thanks. We are getting a new system installed next week with aeroseal and insulation. We decided to pass and purchase higher quality system air filters and to be more diligent with changing them.

aeroseal is a scam

[madhat]

Why don’t you get a Standard UV with the Quartz Bulb. I installed a Sanuvox R+ on my Central Unit July 12, 2013. Just replaced the depleted lamp on March 4, 2020. The Self monitoring system told me the Three Years of lamp life we’re almost up, and gave me a weak lamp message. The Lamp life is three years of actual run time, which it monitors. My unit runs fifteen minutes out of every hour, to UVA the air. Visitors remark how the house has no odor to it. Years ago in a Hospital setting, we had to remove the lamps, and place them in a test unit, to see if they still worked. One thing I noticed was, that if the lamps had dust or any film on them they were either weak or shot. I pull mine from time to time and wipe the lamp with Isopropyl. It’s always come up clean.

[theoldscroll]

aeroseal is a scam

I saw a live demo where holes and a 4x4 in piece of screen in a section of ductwork were sealed. Seemed to me to have some sort of a place in the industry. My thought was throw it out there, like reme's and humidifers, many will not want it just from the expense.

Somebody wants a Reme, sell em a Reme. Someone wants a cover for their A/C, sell them one. Why not? If they think it's worth it and want to "pay you" for it....

[ga-hvac-tech]

Thanks. We are getting a new system installed next week with aeroseal and insulation. We decided to pass and purchase higher quality system air filters and to be more diligent with changing them.

IMO... this is the first place to go...

If there are occupants in the home who have serious medical issues... one of the active air filtration systems (Honeywell or AprilAire)... is a viable option.

Media style (4 or 5 inches thick) is the place to start!

[Rou25]

Most filters on the market are designed to capture particles like dust and pollen, but don’t catch gases like VOCs (volatile organic compounds) or radon. That would require an adsorbent, like activated carbon. (according to the review)
So while many air purifiers are good at filtering pollutant particles out of the air (dust, smoke, pollen, etc.), they are not necessarily very good at removing gaseous pollutants like VOCs or radon from the air that may accumulate from adhesives, paints, or cleaning products. Allergens that are embedded into furniture or flooring are also not captured by them.
The best advice is to address the source of indoor air pollution and ventilate your home.

[Al Harness]

I just installed this in my home and I’m having issues with the noise it makes during start up. It resonates through my metal ductwork. I replaced the first one but it still does it. Seem like it’s normal from what the manufacturer says. They say it’s the self cleaning brushes. It wakes me up at night so if this is truly how it is I would nt recommend it unless you have ductboard.

[RandycookHVAC]

Going to have to do more research on this product myself however so far it sounds promising in some ways yet there might be some things we do not know about so it will be interesting to figure out those grey area's and work out the kinks

[randyf]

Going to have to do more research on this product myself however so far it sounds promising in some ways yet there might be some things we do not know about so it will be interesting to figure out those grey area's and work out the kinks

What's missing with all these PCO devices from numerous providers is data showing effectiveness in residential living spaces.

There is good data showing this technology can reduce very, very high concentration of some VOCs to not quite as high levels, but that's not what we find in homes.
In fact if the levels were as high as used in the academic/lab studies we would call the fire department and get a room for the night.

I've used industrial and consumer monitoring devices and have never seen these magic boxes do anything after running these machines for hours/days.
On the other hand I've seen >15lbs carbon canister reduce levels >80% in minutes (measured close to the canister). Open air ventilation is even quicker and more effective.

That doesn't stop many of the manufactures from bragging about how well their machines work in contrived environments (big fish bowls with artificially high levels for a couple of VOCs).
I've pressed one these manufacturers to take measurements in a real home and they remain silent. They are more than happy to spends big bucks (>10K) contracting a 3rd party to create an environment that does not scale to a real living space but refuse to do an experiment that would cost next to nothing that could prove if their devices really work.

[Xenrid]

We're currently having an AC unit installed in our central air system and my wife asked me to get an air scrubber unit installed with it. I settled on the Reme Halo LED. I just went to check on the install progress and saw that they have placed it on the return side, before the filter. When I asked about it the installer said there isn't room to place it on the supply side, as is typically prescribed, but that it will work fine where he has put it. My concerns are that the thing will quickly become clogged with dust and rendered ineffective, and that the filter will block the hydrogen peroxide particles that this thing supposedly creates. I know it's questionable whether these air scrubbers actually do anything useful, but I'm concerned that whatever small benefit it may have provided will be erased by the way it was installed. Can anyone with knowledge on the subject please clarify whether this is a botched install, or if the installer is correct and it will work fine in this location?

[Snapperhead]

Its Snake oil anyhow .... so what does it matter ?

[hoovie87]

Hello, sorry for the long winded reply. I tried to be thorough and hopefully it makes sense. I highlighted the conclusions. I tested the REME LED, plus then a ventilating dehumidifier after that. I hadn't found any data whatsoever from a real home about the REME LED so I decided to get one and test it. It is wired via a relay to turn on any time the air handler turns on. For testing I have a new 2,000 sq ft home with a two stage Lennox heat pump, variable air handler, and merv 13 5" thick healthy climate filter and returns throughout the house. The REME was installed in the supply plenum. The contractor swore up and down how much it does for people.

I have been using a Kaiterra Laser Egg +VOC to get general trends for VOC's in our home. Calibrating it has quirks. Prior to the test I used it for like a month to get used to it and get consistent readings. It really has to be turned off for a long time like a day. Then, you turn it on outdoors and let it calibrate for at least 5 minutes. This works every time.

Prior to installing the REME, our particulate count has always been near zero. 0-45 ppb total particles and always 0 PM2.5. So, as noted you won't see a particulate change since it is already basically nill. It claims to use positive and negative ionization to make particles stick together to make lower merv filters work better.

Prior to the test, our TVOC levels were higher than acceptable usually 550ppb. They would stick around in that area of 525-575 plus a bit depending on what we were doing. Open windows to air it out and it would go right back there.

I got the REME LED installed. I ran the air handler a lot for two weeks. I usually run it at 20min/hr during mild times to keep the air filtered. This test was during the mild Florida winter. I tried the fan 20min/hr and I tried running the air handler 100% of the time for a couple days also (which isn't practical anyway). I saw absolutely no reduction in VOC's with the REME LED. There was no change over a two week period. It was for sure working because you could smell that sweet smell where the air leaked out around the REME. I noticed no smell from the REME LED in the house. I have concluded that it has zero benefit that I can measure for my particular home. I know UV light sanitizes, but I don't have a way to measure that, plus, it doesn't seem necessary anyway. Usually trying to sanitize everything as we know from science can create super bugs that escape through the sanitization process.

Way prior to this I had a whole house ventilating dehumidifier on order for our home (it wasn't installed yet). Once they finally installed it since it was backordered, well that 25-30cfm of constant positive pressure ventilation made a huge difference. I found leaving the fan run on the dehumidifier works best to have a constant trickle of fresh air. The air comes in from outside through a 4" duct and damper and meets up with recirculated air in a mixing box which then goes into the dehumidifier. The contractor said this was to prevent hot humid air from hitting the cold coil unevenly and also to hopefully prevent growth which they need to inspect yearly. It is a Trane Envirowise they used, but it looks like a Sante Fe Ultra 70 rebranded. Our VOC levels are now usually around 190ppb. I see on a typical day 160-230ppb. It goes up a little when we are home and down a little at night or when we are not home. From my understanding we are now in the safe area. Our particulate count went up a tiny bit to around 100ppb at times, but is usually 50-100 which is still very low. If the air conditioner is running more, it drops the particulates down near zero. PM2.5 remained 0 throughout all tests. The Merv 11 filter on the dehum allows some more particles through the ventilation it seems. The dehumidifier will pull humidity down to whatever you set it at even while mixing in 100% saturated air we have at night. We like it at 50%. Pretty neat.

After this I have tried turning the REME LED back on for days here and there and it seems to make us stuffy and snore. Maybe the aerosolized hydro-peroxides affect our noses? Seems to be an interesting observation, but too many variables to know for certain.

I have tested another great thing which was a DIY project. This didn't interfere with the test. This was after. I sealed the garage/house barrier wall as best I could and installed a 4" exhaust duct with DC in-line duct fan. The garage was so well sealed actually that I then installed an 8" passive inlet duct with bug screen grill jumper from soffit to garage. I noticed a drop in VOC's inside the home especially when charging the golf cart which would cause a drastic spike of well over 1000ppb sometimes reaching 1500ppb! Golf cart battery equalization lets off hydrogen sulfide. It now does not affect the house air. It's nice to know we can now use the garage for it's intended purpose without polluting the inside of the house.

In conclusion: What a learning experience! The REME LED doesn't work for my needs. I have found ventilation works very well to reduce VOC's! I found in my new home I want garage isolation from interior air with exhaust fan, plus a ventilating dehumidifier for the interior space.