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  1. #40
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    Feb 2004
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    Those of you that defend your "Right" to use your phones you can blame the ones that abuse that "Privilege". When you agree to sell your time to an employer, many of your "Rights" go on hold.
    Selling your time is exactly what work is.

    idontgetit, it sounds like your living up to your avatar. Employees that are difficult to manage often end up down the road. You wrote that good techs won't put up with what you called micro management. You missed that one. Good employees work to accomplish the goals management puts forth. It's a symbiotic relationship. They need each other. The good ones understand how the rules come about.

    The tail doesn't wag the dog. I once did a job for the former CEO of Inland Steel. He had a plaque on his desk. It approximately read "If anyone thinks they can't be replaced, stick your finger in a bowl of water. Now take your finger out and see how long the hole remains."
    If a CEO is that expendable, how about yourself?
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  2. #41
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    Aug 2019
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    Marietta , Georgia
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    An employer who mandates "no personal phones" is out of touch with reality. Phones are not just "phones" any more. My company does restaurant equipment repair along with all kind of refrigeration, and we use our phones all the time for a hundred other uses besides talking on them. I take pictures to document conditions pre/post repair, we source replacement parts, look for parts diagrams, look at service manuals, etc.

    It all boils down to not "wasting" time. Doesn't matter how productive an employee is....if he's spending an excessive amount of time "yapping, texting, or buried on his phone doing non work related things" he will get 1, and only 1, warning. If it continues after the 1rst warning he is gone. Period. Break time, or lunch, is their time and they can do what they want then, but work time is MY time and I expect them to be working.

  3. #42
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    Oct 2011
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    Gladstone, Oregon (Portland)
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    I know guys that spend half the day conducting personal business. Same guys that complain a job isnt bid enough hours....hmmmm.

  4. #43
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    Jun 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Those of you that defend your "Right" to use your phones you can blame the ones that abuse that "Privilege". When you agree to sell your time to an employer, many of your "Rights" go on hold.
    Selling your time is exactly what work is.

    idontgetit, it sounds like your living up to your avatar. Employees that are difficult to manage often end up down the road. You wrote that good techs won't put up with what you called micro management. You missed that one. Good employees work to accomplish the goals management puts forth. It's a symbiotic relationship. They need each other. The good ones understand how the rules come about.

    The tail doesn't wag the dog. I once did a job for the former CEO of Inland Steel. He had a plaque on his desk. It approximately read "If anyone thinks they can't be replaced, stick your finger in a bowl of water. Now take your finger out and see how long the hole remains."
    If a CEO is that expendable, how about yourself?
    hvacker, clearly you completely fail to understand what the word "right" means. Rights are protection from government, not employers. it is in no way a violation of law for an employer to opt to have a no phone policy. your rights don't go "on hold" at all, they still apply 100%, however your employer isn't required to honor the vast majority of them at any level with VERY few exceptions, some of those exceptions shouldn't exist but the courts have held some oddities over the years.

    I am supposing here that you think I would fall into that "difficult to manage" category. I am pretty sure that is indeed your undoing. here is a hint, good employees don't need to be managed at all. If you are indeed a manager of sorts, you may well want to revisit your managerial evaluation process and think a lot more outside the box.

    I trade time for money, in doing so I must generate profits that are in excess of the money I have traded for and it is literally exactly that simple. if I don't generate more than I make, I am going to be out the door. There are very tangible metrics that are in play that make "managing" quite simple, there is no reason to try and dance around it with fluff like "in line with goals management puts forth" as if that has ANY TYPE of relation to a leave your phone at home policy. There are also many intangible qualities and deficiencies that have to be evaluated as well, however, like it or not, that single item of making more money than you cost will ALWAYS be a primary evaluator in the employee/employer contract. I didn't miss anything, good techs won't put up with micromanaging because there are a huge number of employers out there that have already figured it out and don't micromanage and they typically pay a lot more than the ones that do. understanding how the rules come about, I really had to laugh at that one. I can actually think of a great many reason the rule came about and other than a very few of them are all managements failure.

    There is nothing wrong with reinforcing common sense with regulations however those regulations have to contain common sense as well or they are going to be ignored by people with common sense. No personal calls or texting while on client property, if using the phone to look up information be sure the client is aware so they understand you are indeed working not playing and such are common sense, saying you are required to leave your personal phone at home and the company phone may only be used for" Only exception is if spouse is pregnant or has life threatening condition." to someone you expect to leave home for extended periods of time completely fails the common sense test and is absolutely micromanaging.

    by the way, back to that rights thing, depending upon which state you live in, requiring compliance with work place rules equals "suffer to work" and you get to pay travel both ways as well as meal breaks. Like I said, the courts have indeed had a few oddities over the years.

    Your hole in the water theory fails completely sir. Everyone has to go sometime, your gonna quit, get fired, retire or die and that is an absolute given. your failure is that you don't see that the employee has that same bowl of water and if they are a good performer they are going to be snatched away from micromanagers so quick their finger won't get wet.

    20 years above the 90th percentile BLS wages I must not be too hard to manage, then again perhaps you are right.

  5. #44
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    Feb 2004
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    New Mexico
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    If an employer could hire just outstanding people rules would be few. Today it's like herding cats. The "rights" I referring to aren't legal rights, they are conditions of employment.
    When you said good employees don't need management. I agree. But they aren't average or even close. I also have discovered over time and working in many other parts of our country that workers differ from other geographic locations.

    idontgetit, you might think of your self as an exceptional employee but what about some of the others you've worked with. Anyone that has hired people knows it's like that Forrest Gump box of chocolates. You take a chance with your hard won customers by turning loose a person you really don't know much about.
    So do you think I should just trust? Trust but verify? Take a chance?
    I believe setting conditions of employment will at least give a company a fighting chance to achieve goals.
    Any employee that is top heavy has the possibility/probably of being a difficult employee.
    Thinks to highly of either their IQ or their skills. This is why so many are called "Prima Donna's" Considers management as something to bully. Intolerant of rules. Wrongly believes that without them the company would have to fail. ~(.)(.)~ Time to go.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  6. #45
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    Jun 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    If an employer could hire just outstanding people rules would be few. Today it's like herding cats. The "rights" I referring to aren't legal rights, they are conditions of employment.
    When you said good employees don't need management. I agree. But they aren't average or even close. I also have discovered over time and working in many other parts of our country that workers differ from other geographic locations.

    idontgetit, you might think of your self as an exceptional employee but what about some of the others you've worked with. Anyone that has hired people knows it's like that Forrest Gump box of chocolates. You take a chance with your hard won customers by turning loose a person you really don't know much about.
    So do you think I should just trust? Trust but verify? Take a chance?
    I believe setting conditions of employment will at least give a company a fighting chance to achieve goals.
    Any employee that is top heavy has the possibility/probably of being a difficult employee.
    Thinks to highly of either their IQ or their skills. This is why so many are called "Prima Donna's" Considers management as something to bully. Intolerant of rules. Wrongly believes that without them the company would have to fail. ~(.)(.)~ Time to go.
    We may be a lot closer aligned than you thought, however, I must add "heavy is the head that wears the crown" to my comments.

    While I completely get that the rules must apply to everyone equally, I don't believe you put forward rules that lack common sense and restrict good employees freedoms because management can't manage the mediocre or bad ones. Without any doubt at all I understand the "bad employee" issues we face in the trades, it is indeed a huge problem. can it be cleared up in the hiring process?

    Dolt number 1, been with the co as a journey level service tech around 30 days in call backs rise. I know because I am the one whom often runs the call back if it hits number 3 because the service manager knows I am very systematic and complete. the simple act of passing me the job is the first red flag and usally a very unhappy customer. Apprentices make mistakes, Journey may miss something on occasion but when you go back and leave it still broken or you have to go back on several, its not a mistake, it is a PROBLEM. Short dolt 1 version, reach in freezer frozen up, thaws and replaces defrost timer, call back, frozen up, adjusted TEV (which was a huge red flag to me but short story) call 3 I get there and see a frozen block of ice for an evap, put the heat gun inside and pop the cover, whoop there it is a brand new 8145-20 DFT on a RIF plugged into a 120v receptacle. Do you keep him and "try to work with him" or do you cut your losses? (note for those not overly familiar, paragon timers are one of if not the most popular defrost timers in commercial refrigeration and ending inn-00 is 120v, -20 is 208/240 volt)

    There are indeed some very good BS artist that will fly under the radar. Do we as an industry allow that simple fact cause us to make our own mistakes? If management has to change the rules then is management not actually letting the worst control management?

    How many jobs shown on the wall of shame does the old adage "you get what you pay for" come to mind? is it the tech's fault or is it the heavy crown wearer?

    here is a VERY unscientific tidbit that may answer a lot of questions folks have and please allow me to say this is NOT personal, I am NOT saying anything bad about you or the company you work for, you simply engaged in the conversation and I mean no offense what so ever, none of it may apply to you at any level.

    Despite the 5 years exp needed, "great pay" Competitive salary" "top pay" and "awesome compensation" "freedom and tools to make you successful" marketing hyperbole in many of the 300+ refrigeration jobs on indeed today (looked just for this conversation, I like where I am at) less than 15% are offered at the BLS median wage or above for the area. With 85% of the job offers falling into the bottom 50% of pay scale I would tend to wonder how much of the tech shortage and quality employee complaints are self imposed.

    While you said yourself, good employees aren't the average, your own comment earlier in the thread on "goals" would indicate to me that you intend on being part of an exceptional company, not an average one. If you adjust for average, you're gonna be average, if you adjust for exceptional, its going to be hard, being exceptional absolutely is as the saying goes, heavy is the head that wears the crown.

    motivate, don't regulate is a great management style and adjusting KPI's on those terms can foster some key team turnarounds, it also means that you have to cut your losses and don't fall into the warm body syndrome so many do in the "shortage" of techs.

    I would bet serious coin that the company who has opted to completely restrict any less than life threating communication with family has given grand speeches at meetings about family and how we are all one big family or we care about you and your family and never understands the looks he / she gets as they say the words.

    Employees are your NUMBER 1 customer, if they bare not sold on you, you will NEVER get their best as you become only a number, the check on Friday.

    You can test for skills, you can even set up practical skills but attitude and work ethic you can't, not so different, you can regulate and train skills, but you can really only motivate work ethic and attitude.

    again, nothing directed at you, where you work if it were in my area I might well be knocking on your door, this is just a conversation about another business with a practice I consider unacceptably poor and you perhaps disagree.

    Peace

  7. #46
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    May 2014
    Location
    Bay Area California
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    I carry two phones. Comes in handy a lot. I'll be talking on one phone, and looking at a photo or other nomenclature on the other. Heck, my work phone won't even make it through the day if all I'm doing is PM's, and it's a newer Apple phone. Then there's the few times where one phone won't connect, but the other will.

    You could never make that rule stick here in Silicone Valley. The tech would just laugh, quit, and have another job within the week.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

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