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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    131
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    Thumbs up The Lodge - high-end install thread (with pictures)

    Hall of pride worthy?

    Spent considerable time spec'ing this system.

    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Software:
    - The contractor used Elite SW
    - I used CoolCalc.


    Manual-D
    - Designed for 900FPS.
    - 2000 CFM (not 2250, given horz. application, 100k BTU, C-box)
    - 3 main trunks - 16", 12", 12"
    - each 12" feeds 9"+8"+8", all 6x14 regs
    - the 16" feeds a bunch of ducts - 6", 4", 2x10", 9", 8", then tapers to 12" for 2x9"
    - 3 returns - all 14x20, all 14", two branch from 16"
    - auto-airflow sizing says 66%, 39%, 38%...my calcs suggest 100% (if dampers fully open on 2x10" - they are about 70% now), 38%, 38% for zones 1,2,3 respectively using .1 friction loss.

    - Manual-J + Manual-S: Massive wall of South facing windows (double-pane only) with cathedral ceilings with 4 large skylights, 16' tall ceilings. Called for a 5-ton system.
    Both S/W packages suggest 4.5-5 tons...Interestingly, double vs. triple pane windows accounted for 1.5 tons of that.

    Constraints
    - Must be "horrible horizontal".
    - Unit in in attic - I know that sucks, but it is what it is.
    - Must go up through 21.5" opening; removal of attic stairs necessary

    Equipment:
    - American Standard Platinum S9V2 100k BTU, 5 ton
    - American Standard Platinum XV19 low-profile heat-pump WITH COATED COILS (special order)
    - 3 zone configuration - static in both discharge+return, temp is discharge today, adding return temp sensor soon.
    - Adding air connections for Testo 510 static monitoring
    - IQ Air Perfect 16
    - All new ducting - all 26ga round, trunk design, mastic every joint, pano everything, etc.
    - 3-5' flex used to minimize noise at boot connections - master return was about 10' of flex, given proximity to equipment.
    - ~200' of ducting used for large home, 3 new supply regs added, 1 new return added (total 3)
    - Metal duct hangers
    - Ducting insulation - "big bubble" reflectix w/spacers for R-8 (I hate fiberglass), taped with foil tape
    - Initially spec'ed quicksling hangers, but they are no longer in production. Used lots of Gripple 02s instead
    - Stainless steel custom pan with separate condensate run
    - Custom plenums to IQAir, return, supply for each of the 3 zones, various connections
    - Clearvue P-trap
    - Airmfg complete system
    - Surge protected condenser shutoff switch
    - Insulated (both liquid/suction), single-run lineset
    - All new shoemaker registers - 600s for returns, 903s, 945s
    - 1050 control, 2x 1040s (new), zone controller, relay controller
    - Concentric vent through my cement tile roof (done by specialty roofing company)
    - Gas shutoff
    - EQ flex for gas
    - overflow for condensate (but not currently using the secondary overflow for the coil)

    Install Features
    - Internal gravity drained to dirty water drain (laundry discharge)
    - Lineset, electrical, drainage, etc. compensating for walkways in attic
    - Work areas around equipment, had to remove attic stairs for much of the work

    Install
    - 4 guys for 8.5 days
    - Took quite a bit of time...the ductwork was extensive. It was pretty relaxed for the first week, then became a bit frantic

    Overall
    - I think it is an outstanding job. What do you think?
    - I do have some nitpicks that I can elaborate on later.

    I took over 500 pictures - many showing the process as it was being done (ducting mastic, etc). Can share many more if there is interest.

    I will start with just 2 - do folks want to see more??

    Name:  IMG_6242.jpg
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    Thanks! -mark

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    131
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    Thread Starter

    Condenser.

    More photos.Name:  IMG_6160.jpg
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    131
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    Thread Starter
    More system photos.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Thread Starter
    2 more.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    131
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    Thread Starter
    Some ducting photos.Name:  IMG_6210.jpg
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    131
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    Thread Starter
    More ducting.Name:  IMG_6309.jpg
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    131
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    Thread Starter
    One more.Name:  IMG_6344.jpg
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    SouthEast NC ICW & Piedmont Foothills
    Posts
    7,902
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    1-Did not see design conditions?
    2-Does it get below freezing?
    2a-Did mfg remove criteria of insulating venting in area subject to freezing temps?
    2b-Is that drain line going to be insulated/heat taped?
    3-Is that secondary pan notched to get primary drain run?
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    213
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    4 guys @ 8-1/2 days seems like a lot of man hours, but I cannot really grasp the need to contort and weave. That’s some roof pitch.

    It sure looks like a pro install to me on first glance. I certainly wouldn’t groan as quickly as usual when I got to the attic

    Also interested in design conditions.

    How’s is it performing so far?

    Nice job. Thx for posting. You should be proud of that ductwork IMO. Tight, straight, minimal turns. Great stuff.

    K

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,434
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    I’m guessing the manufacturers specifications minimum distance from a wall on that condensing unit is not met?

    http://www.denverwinair.com/literatu...40D1-1B-EN.pdf

    If I’m reading it correctly says 20” minimum. Page 6

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    3,273
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    I would highly recommend ripping it all out and starting over with an 80% efficient furnace.

    Tell the people "Sorry, we made a mistake. We didn't realize at the time that a condensing furnace in an unconditioned space where it sometimes gets to below freezing is a REALLY BAD idea and can not possibly work. We plan to use this as a learning experience and will cover all expenses in order to make things right."

    Also have your guys make a proper sediment trap on the gas piping next time. They should have turned that tee 90° and had the yellow thing screw into the top of it. A "running trap" like you guys made isn't the correct way to do it.
    If at First You Don't Succeed, Skydiving Is Not for You.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    26,334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    I’m guessing the manufacturers specifications minimum distance from a wall on that condensing unit is not met?

    http://www.denverwinair.com/literatu...40D1-1B-EN.pdf

    If I’m reading it correctly says 20” minimum. Page 7
    That's OK it doesn't clear on the other either!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,434
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    http://www.denverwinair.com/literatu...40D1-1B-EN.pdf

    If they are going to move it, may want to consider raising it off the pad for better water drainage during defrost, I get it, you may have an overhang ( page 7 ).....just saying.

    Don’t forget to register everything, as manufacturers warranty decreases significantly if system never gets registered.

    Hopefully they installed AHRI matched equipment as your system could easily apply for any rebates from your local utility company, if not a AHRI matched system, worst case the furnace alone probably would qualify.

    What was the reason for going side discharge OD unit, figured you can tuck it closer to a wall than the conventional one, or due to a overhang? as guessing a conventional unit does not require a minimum 20” from a wall as it has 4 sides to draw air from.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 10-29-2019 at 08:43 AM.

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