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  1. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    WEll; the tediously typed report just got erased! I'll write the SOB later!
    HATE it when that happens...

    Interested to hear the outcome... as I used to have one of those older Chevy vans... mine had a 5.7 with a funky ignition system... had to fiddle with it a LOT!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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  3. #223
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    Thread Starter
    Maybe it should be titled: Pilgrims Progress. I'll ask My Bunyan if I happen to see him. <g>

    Constant rain, other projects, physical limitations, and a general malaise of unfortunateness have resulted in no conclusion as yet.

    Few of the purchased parts actually fit. I had to mix & match various parts to make up the timing chain tensioner. And even then I could only get it together by using the old chain on the new sprockets.

    The timing chain cover is single-use. It holds the crankshaft position sensor. The new CCPS would not fit the new cover. Nor the old cover. So I installed the new cover with the old CCPS.

    In retrospect I should have install all the new timing chain bits as there was very little slack in the chain - and just thrown the tensioner in the trash. I have had dozens of small block GM engines apart and they never used any chain tensioner. Although this 4.3 is a single-row chain - so who knows?

    By eventually stoically braving the rain and cold I did get the oil pan off and back on again by removing the crossmember. I know you all advised against it but removing the four bolts and sliding it out just seemed so much easier than jacking up the engine - and then Still having to work around the crossmember. After I got the pan carefully fitted, aligned, and torqued I found that a small sheet metal cover through which the starter gets installed cannot be be installed with the oil pan in place. So that all got done over. Again.

    And I screamingly horsed the truely-a-bastard water pump back on. No warranty on leaks though. <g>. So the front of the engine is together as far as the serpentine belt. And I installed the new Mobil1 and oil filter. My spider sense was bugging me afterwards so I checked the number. Turned out that I cleverly installed a Tacoma 2.7 oil filter instead of the 4.3 GM oil filter. In my defense they are visually and physically EYE-dentical. And the parts numbers are: M1-101A and M1-102A <g>

    No one that I have been able to find can tell me the difference. But there must be one. Maybe it's something simple like the bypass relief setting - I can't imagine a filtering difference. But yesterday, while I was picking up the fan clutch install tools, I thought to just get the right oil filter and forget about learning the differences.

    Of course when I got back here I discovered that I had bought another Tacoma filter. <g>

    My Chrysler mechanic friend has had a death in his family so he, and his Red Snap-On Brick, cannot come by until Thursday or possibly the weekend.

    Sometimes it ain't easy being me. And this sure seems to be one of those times. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Maybe it should be titled: Pilgrims Progress. I'll ask My Bunyan if I happen to see him. <g>

    Constant rain, other projects, physical limitations, and a general malaise of unfortunateness have resulted in no conclusion as yet.

    Few of the purchased parts actually fit. I had to mix & match various parts to make up the timing chain tensioner. And even then I could only get it together by using the old chain on the new sprockets.

    The timing chain cover is single-use. It holds the crankshaft position sensor. The new CCPS would not fit the new cover. Nor the old cover. So I installed the new cover with the old CCPS.

    In retrospect I should have install all the new timing chain bits as there was very little slack in the chain - and just thrown the tensioner in the trash. I have had dozens of small block GM engines apart and they never used any chain tensioner. Although this 4.3 is a single-row chain - so who knows?

    By eventually stoically braving the rain and cold I did get the oil pan off and back on again by removing the crossmember. I know you all advised against it but removing the four bolts and sliding it out just seemed so much easier than jacking up the engine - and then Still having to work around the crossmember. After I got the pan carefully fitted, aligned, and torqued I found that a small sheet metal cover through which the starter gets installed cannot be be installed with the oil pan in place. So that all got done over. Again.

    And I screamingly horsed the truely-a-bastard water pump back on. No warranty on leaks though. <g>. So the front of the engine is together as far as the serpentine belt. And I installed the new Mobil1 and oil filter. My spider sense was bugging me afterwards so I checked the number. Turned out that I cleverly installed a Tacoma 2.7 oil filter instead of the 4.3 GM oil filter. In my defense they are visually and physically EYE-dentical. And the parts numbers are: M1-101A and M1-102A <g>

    No one that I have been able to find can tell me the difference. But there must be one. Maybe it's something simple like the bypass relief setting - I can't imagine a filtering difference. But yesterday, while I was picking up the fan clutch install tools, I thought to just get the right oil filter and forget about learning the differences.

    Of course when I got back here I discovered that I had bought another Tacoma filter. <g>

    My Chrysler mechanic friend has had a death in his family so he, and his Red Snap-On Brick, cannot come by until Thursday or possibly the weekend.

    Sometimes it ain't easy being me. And this sure seems to be one of those times. <g>
    You must have a cousin named 'Murphy' (as in Murphy's law... )

    I remember my 2002 Express 3500 extended... with the 5.7 engine (small block chevy)...
    It was a nightmare to work on and keep running...

    And do not get me started on those 'pixie' injectors... #*&%&$#^@%^$&*$&#
    And the sorry way the intake seals to the heads... #(*&%*($)#_#()#(*(%^*$&))#)#)^*&(#)#)@#)(*%*$*#(@@ *$&#(*@

    One of the better things I have done... is get rid of it and get a newer Express... with the 6.0 engine... well worth the $$$ to swap!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  5. #225
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    Thread Starter
    I bought this van used with something over 150K on it for use in Florida. I've done some minor things to it: starter would occasionally stick so I replaced it. Brakes all around. Wheel bearings all around. But other than that it's been flawless and reliable.

    My Tacoma work-truck was an experiment which, although I really like the truck, was a failure to some extent. The Savana is faster on the highway. No wait; that's not strictly true. The GMC has an ignition cutoff at 95 mph. Without the overdrive the Tacoma will run well over 100 mph. But the Tacoma is just not happy about going that fast. Whereas the GMC just eats it up. So the GMC is consistently-faster. And the GMC gets better gas mileage and has 3-4 times as much room inside. The GMC is just the better all-around truck for what I use trucks for.

    Of course I am doing all this running around - fixing the recalcitrant GMC . . . . in the ultra-reliable Toyota. <g>

    PHM
    --------





    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    HATE it when that happens...

    Interested to hear the outcome... as I used to have one of those older Chevy vans... mine had a 5.7 with a funky ignition system... had to fiddle with it a LOT!
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

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  7. #226
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    Well that's quite a story. Just to refresh my memory.....

    at any time did you observe the motion of the distributor rotor while cranking the engine....and ensure that it consistently moves smoothly in a circular fashion...and after doing that, did you check to make certain that the rotor is indexed under number one cylinder at top dead center?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  8. #227
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    Jul 2002
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    I highly suggest that you use the wixfilters.com site. They give full specifications for any filter part number. I also highly suggest that you learn the specs of your filters and then go with the biggest one with matching specs that will fit the physical space provided.

    Example, the M1-101a crosses to the Wix 51040, a filter with 18mm metric threads that GM has been using for years on many engines and has been since they shortened their filter, the longer filter part number is the 51036. I use the 36 on any GM that specifies the 40 unless the longer length is an issue.

    The M1-102a crosses to the 51348, which is a small diameter SAE 3/4" thread filter that is used of a whole host of things like lawn mowers, Etc. The larger diameter version is the 51085, a filter that Chrysler used for many years, and the longer version of that is the 51515 AKA the Motorcraft FL-1A because Ford used that filter for many years.

    My 5th gen Grand Caravan 3.3 specifies the 51348 and I use the 51515 on it.
    To get the degree symbol on Windows hold down the Alt key and type 0176 or 248 on the keyboard number pad. It is also available via the character map, and on Windows 8.1 devices with a touchscreen via the on screen keyboard.

    There is no "E" in either BluVac or Blu-ray Disc.

    If you are the type where the painting is more important than the frame, or you just like movies, join me in listening to the widescreen.org podcast.

  9. #228
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    I have seen the rotor going around. It has no radial or axial play in it. This distributor was new 4-5K miles ago.

    It strikes me that I set the timing mark dead-on with the rotor pointing to the #1 tower in the distributor cap. The timing marks on the timing chain sprockets were together when I pulled the timing chain cover - I never rotated the engine while that cover was off - and the marks on the timing chain sprockets were together when I put the new timing cover on.

    I'm willing to believe pretty much anything about now - but I don't believe that I have the timing off mechanically. <g>

    It's 7:20P here and there no sign of Red Brick Billy so maybe there'll be no answer today either.

    And just that quick: He texted and said something came up - he'll be over tomorrow. At 6:30P he said.

    I think I saw a live-date reader deal online, in my sure-seemed-endless searching, which runs on a laptop. So I guess it's just an ODB (is that what the widget is called?) adapter to USB and some software. Maybe $150. I think?

    If this sh!t is going to be a routine - maybe it should be truck-stock? <g>

    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Well that's quite a story. Just to refresh my memory.....1

    at any time did you observe the motion of the distributor rotor while cranking the engine....and ensure that it consistently moves smoothly in a circular fashion...and after doing that, did you check to make certain that the rotor is indexed under number one cylinder at top dead center?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  10. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I have seen the rotor going around. It has no radial or axial play in it. This distributor was new 4-5K miles ago.

    It strikes me that I set the timing mark dead-on with the rotor pointing to the #1 tower in the distributor cap. The timing marks on the timing chain sprockets were together when I pulled the timing chain cover - I never rotated the engine while that cover was off - and the marks on the timing chain sprockets were together when I put the new timing cover on.

    I'm willing to believe pretty much anything about now - but I don't believe that I have the timing off mechanically. <g>

    It's 7:20P here and there no sign of Red Brick Billy so maybe there'll be no answer today either.

    And just that quick: He texted and said something came up - he'll be over tomorrow. At 6:30P he said.

    I think I saw a live-date reader deal online, in my sure-seemed-endless searching, which runs on a laptop. So I guess it's just an ODB (is that what the widget is called?) adapter to USB and some software. Maybe $150. I think?

    If this sh!t is going to be a routine - maybe it should be truck-stock? <g>

    PHM
    --------
    That (in bold) was something I was seriously thinking to get...
    Got a new van instead...

    Still though... if one could get the documentation for the vehicle they were working on...
    The computer thingy would be a nifty diagnosis tool!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  11. #230
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    Thread Starter
    I only judged the female threads of the two oil filters by eye but both filters went on and tightened properly. Is 3/4" thread the same at 18mm thread?

    Any idea why GM shortened their specified oil filter?

    I have plenty of room - the oil filter could be three times as long as it is and still fit easily. And that would probably make it easier to install. <g>

    How much longer is the 36 than the 40 ?

    How funny is it that the GM engine takes a metric-thread oil filter while the Toyota engine takes a SAE-thread oil filter? <g>

    You say that the M1-102A is "a small diameter" filter - but the M1-101A is exactly the same external size.

    I don't know if it was the oil filter, the engine design, or the Mobil1 oil - but this engine is the cleanest inside of any that I have ever had apart. Well; my Triumph Bonneville was cleaner but I only have 40,000 miles on it - this GMC has over 175,000 miles. The inside is spotless. Cleaning the inside of the oil pan with mineral spirits really did change its appearance. <g>

    PHM
    ----------


    Quote Originally Posted by danielthechskid View Post
    I highly suggest that you use the wixfilters.com site. They give full specifications for any filter part number. I also highly suggest that you learn the specs of your filters and then go with the biggest one with matching specs that will fit the physical space provided.

    Example, the M1-101a crosses to the Wix 51040, a filter with 18mm metric threads that GM has been using for years on many engines and has been since they shortened their filter, the longer filter part number is the 51036. I use the 36 on any GM that specifies the 40 unless the longer length is an issue.

    The M1-102a crosses to the 51348, which is a small diameter SAE 3/4" thread filter that is used of a whole host of things like lawn mowers, Etc. The larger diameter version is the 51085, a filter that Chrysler used for many years, and the longer version of that is the 51515 AKA the Motorcraft FL-1A because Ford used that filter for many years.

    My 5th gen Grand Caravan 3.3 specifies the 51348 and I use the 51515 on it.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  12. #231
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    I do not remember the number on it...

    However there is a rather large oil filter that fits the small block Chevy... holds almost 2 qts of oil... sticks down to the bottom of the pan and maybe a tad farther, do not remember.

    I used to us that filter on my old van... the oil pressure stayed higher during the hot part of the summer!
    Not sure if it was the bottom of the filter in the airstream or the extra qt of oil, or a combination of those...
    However whenever one can get the oil pressure up 8-10 PSI by using a different filter and an added qt of oil... that is a good thing!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  13. #232
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    While we are talking about oil filters...

    The filter that goes on the 6.0 engine is a dinky little thing...
    Is there a larger filter (would have to be similar diameter and longer)...
    That will fit the engine???

    Edit: The WIX website says the engine takes this filter:
    57060 or
    57060XP

    Would love to find a filter that will spin on, that is taller!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  14. #233
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    Thread Starter
    Wow! Those two filters I was talking about are wildly different.

    The GM filter is good for 2 gallons per minute flow rate - of course it filters to 4 microns. No bypass and a 75 lb. burst rating.

    The Toyota filter is good for 9 gallons per minute flow rate - but it only filters to 21 microns. Bypass at 10 lbs and has a 275 lb. burst pressure.

    Pretty radical differences between items which literally look identical. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  15. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I have seen the rotor going around. It has no radial or axial play in it. This distributor was new 4-5K miles ago.

    It strikes me that I set the timing mark dead-on with the rotor pointing to the #1 tower in the distributor cap. The timing marks on the timing chain sprockets were together when I pulled the timing chain cover - I never rotated the engine while that cover was off - and the marks on the timing chain sprockets were together when I put the new timing cover on.

    I'm willing to believe pretty much anything about now - but I don't believe that I have the timing off mechanically. <g>

    It's 7:20P here and there no sign of Red Brick Billy so maybe there'll be no answer today either.

    And just that quick: He texted and said something came up - he'll be over tomorrow. At 6:30P he said.

    I think I saw a live-date reader deal online, in my sure-seemed-endless searching, which runs on a laptop. So I guess it's just an ODB (is that what the widget is called?) adapter to USB and some software. Maybe $150. I think?

    If this sh!t is going to be a routine - maybe it should be truck-stock? <g>

    PHM
    --------
    I would like a confirmation that there is compression in number one cylinder, and that everything still lines up when you get that characteristic "puff" as it reaches TDC.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

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