Any Chevy motor heads here? This one is kicking my butt -

[VTP99]

Where did those "interference or not" replies come from?

What website ?

PHM
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That one was SilveradoSierra.com

[Poodle Head Mikey]

The entire distributor, including all it's parts, was replaced maybe 4000-5000 miles ago. Not to say that new parts can't also fail - but I tend to look elsewhere for trouble. I guess 60,000 volt ignition is more prone to carbon track but I sure don't see any evidence of it examining the still-new-looking parts involved.

It's raining today and I have a custom oak railing and balusters to build today (and I Just Now finished just the Pattern for the railing end angles <g>) but since I already have the timing cover off: maybe tomorrow I'll start rebuilding the engine from there on out. Eliminating timing issues as I go.

After that I'm debating buying a super-duty scanner - or having the SOB towed to a shop and make them find the problem(s). <g>

Can the computer for this engine (controls the timing and so forth) fail to intermittent? Or is it always good / fully bad ?

PHM
--------

I have seen the rotor burn a small small hole in the middle and arc down to the shaft..
I have seen distributor caps go bad to where it arcs to one post each spark due to carbon tracking... Scratchs.. cracks.. so it it trying to fire two posts at once.
Let's just say the number four post for instance... It will get a spark each time from the crack and the post that is supposed to get the spark only gets limited voltage... That number four now firing random can cause bucking.. back firing terrible idle and so on.
I first suspected distributor trouble... But I cant get away that the problem began when you had a temporary connection problem at the battery.
Maybe you just had a terrible day and this problem would have occurred anyway if there had been no connection loss.... In that case with General Motors the problem is often right at the distributor...Cheap rotors used to be a problem (arcing to the post).. but you have spark which can still be a bad cap tracking on the inside.


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[pageyjim]

The entire distributor, including all it's parts, was replaced maybe 4000-5000 miles ago. Not to say that new parts can't also fail - but I tend to look elsewhere for trouble. I guess 60,000 volt ignition is more prone to carbon track but I sure don't see any evidence of it examining the still-new-looking parts involved.

It's raining today and I have a custom oak railing and balusters to build today (and I Just Now finished just the Pattern for the railing end angles <g>) but since I already have the timing cover off: maybe tomorrow I'll start rebuilding the engine from there on out. Eliminating timing issues as I go.

After that I'm debating buying a super-duty scanner - or having the SOB towed to a shop and make them find the problem(s). <g>

Can the computer for this engine (controls the timing and so forth) fail to intermittent? Or is it always good / fully bad ?

PHM
--------

ECM or PCM can be intermittent especially with a bad ground.

[Missouri Guy]

The entire distributor, including all it's parts, was replaced maybe 4000-5000 miles ago. Not to say that new parts can't also fail - but I tend to look elsewhere for trouble. I guess 60,000 volt ignition is more prone to carbon track but I sure don't see any evidence of it examining the still-new-looking parts involved.

It's raining today and I have a custom oak railing and balusters to build today (and I Just Now finished just the Pattern for the railing end angles ) but since I already have the timing cover off: maybe tomorrow I'll start rebuilding the engine from there on out. Eliminating timing issues as I go.

After that I'm debating buying a super-duty scanner - or having the SOB towed to a shop and make them find the problem(s).

Can the computer for this engine (controls the timing and so forth) fail to intermittent? Or is it always good / fully bad ?

PHM
--------

I am only leading you to the distributor as it is easy to check .. and it not an uncommon problem...You had mentioned backfiring running rough..and an engine misfire code.
How the misfire code works ..is the computer detects that brief temporary nano second slowing of the engine in relation where the engine is in the fireing sequence...If our engine is bucking.. running real rough ..etc(other than besides a steady miss)..that misfire code may not be accurate..it was just slow enough in the sequence to get (blamed)...but the fact that it tossed one out shows us it is at least running rough.
I would go straight to basics and work my way up by the trying the following
I would check ignition timing while cranking..if you are showing a little before TDC you are good.
You had mentioned a backfire...Timing off very many degrees can cause this.
Lean fuel mixture can sometimes cause it..and so can arcing in the cap where it is not supposed to be arcing.
Since the voltage is much higher than back in the old days..arcing is more apt to occur as well.
As far as the computer ...do it by process of elimination.
Unplug fuel pump relay...and see if engine will run on starting fluid...is yes ignition is working properly and it is a fuel delivery problem.

Check timing while cranking...touch before TDC....just for grins...check the opposite cylinder (opposite wire on distributor) while you are there....should also fire just before TDC.
But don't stop there that cheap timing light can do so much more...If you don't want to replace the cap you can check it with the timing light.. With the other four plug wires...one at a time try them for erratic firing .. they should all fire with the same amount of time in between flashes..a sporadic spark on any of them will point to a cap.
A good light can find an internal arc too if the tracking is tracking to a post ...as the induction of the light will pick it up and it will be fireing six times more than it should be.

The GM computer isn't generally a item to fail....but as someone has mentioned... Bad grounds can cause a host of problems

If it does start...keep it going as long as you can.
Some problems have to exist a decent amount of time before a code will be set... others a warm engine must present

A missing engine with EFI will sometimes barely run until the computer figures out that cylinder is missing...reason...the air leaving that cylinder hasn't been (used) the computer doest know that and changes the fuel mixture because it thinks the air fuel mixture is wrong as that is what the oxygen senors are telling it.. that's why if you get it started..run it for several minutes..the computer will figure out whats wrong with it almost everytime..



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[Missouri Guy]

You can also try a reset... Let's say it was trying to learn... But wasn't done yet... You shut it off... Whilst it was bucking and shaking.. try a reset First... Free and easy

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[Poodle Head Mikey]

It was just a straw-grabbing wild-ass guess. I disconnect the battery every time I leave this van alone in Florida for more than a week. And it has never done anything with the battery eventually reconnected but start and run smooth.

I used to have a Jeep Cherokee that always seemed to require some 're-learning' every time the battery was disconnected. That'
s what put it in my mind with this van - but this van has never seemed to require it before.

But while we're talking: how is that "resetting" process accomplished anyway? <g>

PHM
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You can also try a reset... Let's say it was trying to learn... But wasn't done yet... You shut it off... Whilst it was bucking and shaking.. try a reset First... Free and easy

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[Snapperhead]

the distributor is probly under warranty , maybe try that

I dont think the scanner can point to a bad dizzy

[Snapperhead]

You can also try a reset... Let's say it was trying to learn... But wasn't done yet... You shut it off... Whilst it was bucking and shaking.. try a reset First... Free and easy

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The older fords , like in the 90's , had a re-learn procedure

I doubt his 2005 needs to re-learn

[Snapperhead]

any chance a squirrel chewed on wires ?

[Missouri Guy]

The older fords , like in the 90's , had a re-learn procedure

I doubt his 2005 needs to re-learn

They all adjust and learn as they go..A GM is pretty close at default/ before it has to learn...then it trims fuel and the stepper motor for idle
Some other makes may run rich and have a high idle for several minutes



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[Missouri Guy]

It was just a straw-grabbing wild-ass guess. I disconnect the battery every time I leave this van alone in Florida for more than a week. And it has never done anything with the battery eventually reconnected but start and run smooth.

I used to have a Jeep Cherokee that always seemed to require some 're-learning' every time the battery was disconnected. That'
s what put it in my mind with this van - but this van has never seemed to require it before.

But while we're talking: how is that "resetting" process accomplished anyway? <g>

PHM
--------

Unhooking the battery for a spell should do it.. .some newer vehicles don't respond to this ...but since your is several years old it should.
It's free and worth a try.
That will give you a fresh start (pun /no pun).



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[timebuilder]

Every system controller has a short-term fuel trim which must be re-learned under OBD2.

But..... that short-term fuel trim has nothing to do with the problem that you're experiencing.

I think you indicated that you noted that the distributor rotor was once in the incorrect position, and then when you checked again it was in the correct position.... so I'd want to pull that distributor and shine a light down in that hole and watch that camshaft rotate while somebody else cranks the engine over by hand.

In what could be a related story.... I sold a 69 Corvette that I had modded out in 1971 to a fellow who was an officer on board a naval submarine, and he was driving from outside of Philadelphia up 95 to the sub base in Connecticut.... and while he was going through the Bronx the engine stopped running so he had to have it towed to a place where it was going to be stored while he was on duty for 6 months, and he took the train up to the sub base.

So he comes back from active duty and has the car towed back to our little town outside of Philadelphia...and it turned out that the distributor gear had broken in half and fallen down inside the engine block.

Now mind you, this was the 427 rat motor, but metallurgy hasn't really changed that much.... so I would want to look at those gears and their mating surfaces very carefully.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

That would be a funny retribution.

I have a 1000 square foot carport with a bunch of stuff stored in the rafters. Squirrels and birds always found it a handy place to have nests. I am live-and-let-live and we co-existed for years. Then maybe ten years ago the squirrels decided that they owned the place and I had to get out. They would always come out and scream at me and eventually one of them pissed on my head while I was working on my boat.

That was my Sand Line and it was ON. From then on whenever they made a sound I ran out and threw 2 by 4 chunks at them, poked them with furring strips, beat them with sticks, chased them across the lawns and down the street; me screaming and bellowing the whole time. And when they raced up a tree I kept throwing stuff and tossing furring strips like javelins way up into the trees.

Although I hadn't screwed any rat traps to the trees yet - I guess they knew how serious I was because they mostly decided to relocate to somewhere less risky. After that I installed a standing seam metal roof and then they couldn't even cross the yard without encountering me.

So maybe the squirrel grandsons all got together and came up with the idea of chewing my van wires to even that old score. <g>

I've seen no evidence that they have but I'll have a closer look when it dries out.

PHM
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any chance a squirrel chewed on wires ?

[Missouri Guy]

Every system controller has a short-term fuel trim which must be re-learned under OBD2.

But..... that short-term fuel trim has nothing to do with the problem that you're experiencing.

I think you indicated that you noted that the distributor rotor was once in the incorrect position, and then when you checked again it was in the correct position.... so I'd want to pull that distributor and shine a light down in that hole and watch that camshaft rotate while somebody else cranks the engine over by hand.

In what could be a related story.... I sold a 69 Corvette that I had modded out in 1971 to a fellow who was an officer on board a naval submarine, and he was driving from outside of Philadelphia up 95 to the sub base in Connecticut.... and while he was going through the Bronx the engine stopped running so he had to have it towed to a place where it was going to be stored while he was on duty for 6 months, and he took the train up to the sub base.

So he comes back from active duty and has the car towed back to our little town outside of Philadelphia...and it turned out that the distributor gear had broken in half and fallen down inside the engine block.

Now mind you, this was the 427 rat motor, but metallurgy hasn't really changed that much.... so I would want to look at those gears and their mating surfaces very carefully.

I have seen some Ford distributors almost lock up damaging the cam gear as well.
The distributor may turn fine once out and in your hand ...but pulling and pushing on the shaft while rotating will have a very tight position...bam..bad distributor.

I didn't know PHMs had (slipped) time at the distributor...if it has then the gear for sure... Hopefully it is just the distributor gear and doesn't take out the cam like some Ford's do.

I also suggested checking the timing as well due to the backfiring...which could save him from pulling the distributor and looking...he would need to retime after reinstalling anyway..so just as well check it before hand...if the timing is not correct then pull the distributor.





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[Poodle Head Mikey]

I did try to manfully move the rotor with the distributor installed but it was solid - it might have 1/16" of rotary play in it.

I also pulled the relatively-new distributor out and try to make the rotor and the bottom gear move independently - but I was not successful: they were both solidly connected to each other.

And I peeked down the hole the distributor normally lives in but I really couldn't see anything which looked meaningful. I was expecting to see the cam gear but maybe it's full of oil or something.

PHM
-------

Every system controller has a short-term fuel trim which must be re-learned under OBD2.

But..... that short-term fuel trim has nothing to do with the problem that you're experiencing.

I think you indicated that you noted that the distributor rotor was once in the incorrect position, and then when you checked again it was in the correct position.... so I'd want to pull that distributor and shine a light down in that hole and watch that camshaft rotate while somebody else cranks the engine over by hand.

In what could be a related story.... I sold a 69 Corvette that I had modded out in 1971 to a fellow who was an officer on board a naval submarine, and he was driving from outside of Philadelphia up 95 to the sub base in Connecticut.... and while he was going through the Bronx the engine stopped running so he had to have it towed to a place where it was going to be stored while he was on duty for 6 months, and he took the train up to the sub base.

So he comes back from active duty and has the car towed back to our little town outside of Philadelphia...and it turned out that the distributor gear had broken in half and fallen down inside the engine block.

Now mind you, this was the 427 rat motor, but metallurgy hasn't really changed that much.... so I would want to look at those gears and their mating surfaces very carefully.

[Achso017]

My god, I wish I was your neighbor about ten years ago.

That would be a funny retribution.

I have a 1000 square foot carport with a bunch of stuff stored in the rafters. Squirrels and birds always found it a handy place to have nests. I am live-and-let-live and we co-existed for years. Then maybe ten years ago the squirrels decided that they owned the place and I had to get out. They would always come out and scream at me and eventually one of them pissed on my head while I was working on my boat.

That was my Sand Line and it was ON. From then on whenever they made a sound I ran out and threw 2 by 4 chunks at them, poked them with furring strips, beat them with sticks, chased them across the lawns and down the street; me screaming and bellowing the whole time. And when they raced up a tree I kept throwing stuff and tossing furring strips like javelins way up into the trees.

Although I hadn't screwed any rat traps to the trees yet - I guess they knew how serious I was because they mostly decided to relocate to somewhere less risky. After that I installed a standing seam metal roof and then they couldn't even cross the yard without encountering me.

So maybe the squirrel grandsons all got together and came up with the idea of chewing my van wires to even that old score. <g>

I've seen no evidence that they have but I'll have a closer look when it dries out.

PHM
--------

[Missouri Guy]

I did try to manfully move the rotor with the distributor installed but it was solid - it might have 1/16" of rotary play in it.

I also pulled the relatively-new distributor out and try to make the rotor and the bottom gear move independently - but I was not successful: they were both solidly connected to each other.

And I peeked down the hole the distributor normally lives in but I really couldn't see anything which looked meaningful. I was expecting to see the cam gear but maybe it's full of oil or something.

PHM
-------

The cam gear isnt in oil..kinda hard to see down there as a flashlight will be in your way if you try to look straight down the hole.
Since you had the distributor out ...you may be off a tooth or two upon reinstalling it..unless you indexed the rotor beforehand....but none the less
Check your timing now since you had the distributor out.
If you can get the light just right to see the gear you can see down there ... It takes two crank revolutions to equal one cam revolution...so look in hole. Turn engine a half turn.. which will give you another quarter view of cam repeat until you have two revolutions on crank..I would start with the timing marks lined up so you know where you are starting from.




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[Snapperhead]

If youre not sure where the dizzy drops back in , I can share my trick to finding TDC

Remove # 1 Plug

Hold your finger over # 1 plug hole

Have a friend bump starter

Ok so you will feel a slight pressure when the Exhaust stroke pushes on your finger , dont be fooled , but when the Power stroke comes around there will be No question ... it will shove your finger off like mad with a loud hiss

Sometimes the engine goes around too much , so have them bump it around again , go past the exhaust stroke , and this time stop as you feel the big hiss coming on

Now align your Harmonic balancer with 0 , it should only be an inch or 2 away

Then ofcourse drop the dizzy so it points to # 1

Soemtimes it wont drop in all of the way because of the oil shaft , so I make an educated guess where it should land , and bump the starter while pushing down , and it falls in place

Then stick your finger over the plug hole once again to find TDC , and verify the dizzy is pointing at # 1 just to be sure

[timebuilder]

I for one am eager to hear how this one turns out.

[6t7gto]

I have an 08 Express.
The ground cable from the battery goes to the frame and then there is a woven mesh that goes from there to block.