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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    No argument on some of this, including Trump's defensiveness. On the same token, there is validity to much of the Fae News accusations. And there is no denying that the Liberal press is part of the Liberal machine, which comprises a large part of the 'Fake News'. Fake news is defined by either spin that renders the truth unrecognizable or out and out lies. Both of which CNN is guilty of.
    The term "fake news" is spin itself because it's intent is to sway the public against the news organizations. If the term "biased news" was used, it would be more accurate. Fake news calls into question even the facts that are reported. In that way anything that doesn't fit into our belief system can be called fake news whether true or not. The facts do get reported but selectively & it's up to us to decide how much is bias & speculation when most of the new ends up being commentary.
    Gary
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    The point you're ignoring is that the employees demonstrated that CNN is fake news and is motivated by an Agenda. Bias is what drives the behavior. There are different responses to one's bias. CNN has chosen to invent the news, drive the news and, as a result, are the news. As to Fox, I've already stated my opinion on them.
    And I have stated that the concept of fake news is invalid. CNN doesn't make up the news. They choose what facts to present to its audience, and they frame and package said facts in a way they think will make them the most money. And I guess biased news is more profitable than investigative news, since both CNN and Fox purvey bias news.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    The term "fake news" is spin itself because it's intent is to sway the public against the news organizations. If the term "biased news" was used, it would be more accurate. Fake news calls into question even the facts that are reported. In that way anything that doesn't fit into our belief system can be called fake news whether true or not. The facts do get reported but selectively & it's up to us to decide how much is bias & speculation when most of the new ends up being commentary.
    What I disagree with here is the first sentence. That there are instances of 'Fake News' can not be denied and are documentable. The term itself is based on reality. That it can be used with bias is another matter with which I agree.

    And, perhaps there is another 'category' of what may be erroneously called 'fake news' but is just as detrimental. And that is when a news organization chooses to participate in activism to achieve the goals of a political Agenda. There seem to be many instances of that, of which the latest CNN expose would seem to be the latest.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    What I disagree with here is the first sentence. That there are instances of 'Fake News' can not be denied and are documentable. The term itself is based on reality.
    "Trumps reality" maybe. Does every news agency make mistakes? Yes, but if it is determined to be actually false, they offer a retraction. I get that retractions almost never get the screen time that the original story does, but they do it. 99% of the time I hear ya'll ARP Trumpers call something fake news it is only bias.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    And I have stated that the concept of fake news is invalid. CNN doesn't make up the news. They choose what facts to present to its audience, and they frame and package said facts in a way they think will make them the most money. And I guess biased news is more profitable than investigative news, since both CNN and Fox purvey bias news.
    So, is it real news? Are the facts presented in a certain way to make you believe something other than the bare-naked truth?


    Again, the comparisons against Fox aren't necessary. You'll get no argument that Fox shows bias too. We may disagree on the frequency and amount, but I agree it's there.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    So, is it real news? Are the facts presented in a certain way to make you believe something other than the bare-naked truth?
    Yes it is real. And yes they are packaging it in a way to make it easier to infer things beyond just the bare naked facts.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    What I disagree with here is the first sentence. That there are instances of 'Fake News' can not be denied and are documentable. The term itself is based on reality. That it can be used with bias is another matter with which I agree.

    And, perhaps there is another 'category' of what may be erroneously called 'fake news' but is just as detrimental. And that is when a news organization chooses to participate in activism to achieve the goals of a political Agenda. There seem to be many instances of that, of which the latest CNN expose would seem to be the latest.
    Maybe I'm blind but whether it's CNN, MSNBC or FOX, I just don't see them intentionally reporting lies as facts. It just doesn't happen & even if they do get fooled it's not common enough for main stream news to be labeled as fake news. Fake news implies lies being passed off as facts on a regular basis which goes far beyond commentary & bias. I don't know what documented fake news you're talking about but with millions of facts that go into news stories over the years there's bound to be some that are found not to be true. That doesn't make it the norm & certainly not enough to label the entire main stream news as "fake news". Our country was founded on the principle of a free press & yet Trump is bound & determined to undermine the press at every turn. Thus the term "fake news" that he has coined for his followers to use.
    Gary
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    Yes it is real. And yes they are packaging it in a way to make it easier to infer things beyond just the bare naked facts.
    That's one way of looking at it. I believe that if the news is presented in a way that conveys a different message than the reality, it's not real news.

    An analogy that may clarify: If a man's wife tells him she's going to see a movie with a friend, but the man later finds out that the "friend" is a man with whom she is having an affair, is it spin, or is she withholding the truth?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    The term "fake news" is spin itself because it's intent is to sway the public against the news organizations. If the term "biased news" was used, it would be more accurate. Fake news calls into question even the facts that are reported. In that way anything that doesn't fit into our belief system can be called fake news whether true or not. The facts do get reported but selectively & it's up to us to decide how much is bias & speculation when most of the new ends up being commentary.
    I dont dissagree with this. But it is kinda semantics.

    You say potato, I say....

    Left wing bias is a HUGE problem in this country. And it is very effective, even on people who recognize its happening.

    Gary, that means even though you realize 99% of the news that reaches ears and eyes is biased to the left, you are still effectively propagandized.

    I'll post a video of a researcher talking about this phenomenon to congress. He is well respected and a liberal. But one of those rare honest liberals. I'd urge guys like you and David watch it.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    That's one way of looking at it. I believe that if the news is presented in a way that conveys a different message than the reality, it's not real news.
    Did I say it differs from reality? No. They just load the facts up with bias, making it easier to digest by having inferences pre-loaded so to speak. Let's look at a random paragraph from CNN:

    "1. Trump outsources his diplomatic mission to Pence
    President Donald Trump has been vocal this week about his communications with Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, including releasing a letter he sent to the Turkish leader in which Trump warned him not to be a "fool" over fighting in northern Syria.
    But it was Vice President Mike Pence, along with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who went to Ankara to negotiate a ceasefire."

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/20/p...ast/index.html

    Is there anything factually wrong with it? No, but for one thing, they are keeping the Trump/Turkey issue on the front page... in part because they believe it makes Trump look bad. Second, "outsourcing" it's true that Pence is the one who went to Ankara, but the term outsourcing is a loaded one, and they seem to be framing it in a way that makes Trump look to be the one talking, but Pence the one who actually did the work. I could keep going, but I hope I made my point.

    If you want to keep digesting what the conservative media throws at you, because it fits your pre-conceived biases, and is easy for you to digest. That is your choice. But it doesn't make the liberal side of media "fake."

  12. #37
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    Gary and David, please spend 20 minutes and watch this. He researched all of this and explains how people are swayed even if they know the news outlet is biased. If you guys truly believe you are fair minded liberals, this is your guy. He's one of you.

    He's a very well respected research scientist. And a liberal who actively and publicity supported Hillary.


    Wikipedia:
    Robert Epstein (born June 19, 1953) is an American psychologist, professor, author, and journalist. He earned his Ph.D. in psychology at Harvard University in 1981, was editor in chief of Psychology Today, a visiting scholar at the University of California, San Diego, and the founder and director emeritus of the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies in Concord, MA.[1]

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  13. #38
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    I just find it uproariously funny that an agenda driven organization like Project Veritas has the unmitigated gall to call out ANYONE as biased fake news.

    They definitely have guts ........... brains not so much.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

  14. #39
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    And why the above is important is Millions of Americans see only the liberal bias. You have to actively search and turn on Fox news or visit sites like Brietbart or The Blaze. The entire rest of the media which is biased liberal garbage, is part of everyone's world. It's the air we all breath every day all day. You can't escape it. It's on every news stand in supermarkets. It's on every TV in doctors offices, break rooms, airports, etc. They advertise everywhere. It's on commercials when your trying to watch CSI. It's infiltrated into the story line of CSI. It's on every internet search. Its in late night comedy shows. It's in many movies. It's on many sitcoms. It's on Yahoo Comcast, etc. It's on every "news feed".

    It's always there, but you have to search out news and information that slants right. Other than picking up your remote and turning in Fox news, you never get anything that balances out the onslaught of left wing filtered information all around us 2very day, all day.

    And the right wing bias with Fox "NEWS" is no where near as biased as CNN and MSNBC's "news". Not even in the same ballpark.

    So yes, what Dr Epstein says above is extremely important and should concern any "classic liberal" as it concern him.

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