View Poll Results: Please Choose Your Average Award Per Injured/Killed Person:

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  • $0

    11 84.62%
  • $10,000

    1 7.69%
  • $50,000

    0 0%
  • $100,000

    1 7.69%
  • $500,000

    0 0%
  • $1,000,000

    0 0%
  • $1,600,000

    0 0%
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  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I do not agree. I believe those hotels choose the amount of security they are willing to use. Could you get a single gun into a concert? No way! Can you get a gun into a fair? No way! Can you get one past TSA? No way! Can you get one into a State or Federal building. No way! So if a business, large or small, wants to keep guns out, they can. The Vegas hotels are choosing not to. They have chosen their level of security and it is minimal which could be easily proven in court.

    Also, this is not a legal issue. It is a civil issue and strictly determined by juries. If 9 out of 12 decide the hotel should pay, they will pay.

    If a contractor screwed up and mis-wired an electrical box, started a fire and killed a few dozen people and taps out the contractors insurance coverage, who pays the extra costs? The hotel does. An employee goes nuts and kills a guest, who pays? The hotel does. If a chandelier falls and kills a baby, who pays? The hotel does. If a man walks in with a machete and takes a guests heads off, who pays? The hotel does. A motorist drives through the front window and kills a few people and only has 15/30 minimum insurance, who will supplement those costs? The hotel does. If there is one ounce of negligence on the hotel's part, they will pay. And there was definitely negligence on the hotels part because if they wanted to keep guns out of their building, plenty of businesses have shown them how to do that. They just choose not to.

    If I leave debris on the sidewalk and a pedestrian trips and gets hurt, who pays? I do. If it happened at work my business liability will pay. If I run into a Porsche on my bike, my HO insurance pays because my bike is part of my house.

    I was in Vegas last weekend. They have installed 12" x 48" steel posts everywhere a pedestrian can be run down by a motor vehicle. IMO, they did this because if another mow-down occurred, they would be liable for not taking all steps to protect the victims.

    I'm just telling you how these things are determined in court and why The Mandalay Bay insurance company is willing to pay 3/4 of a billion dollars. It's not only to protect their image. It's because they would lose in court.

    So if Tool or Glenn had a son killed that night, and it was proven that the hotel was indeed negligent and owed, they'd quickly have their hands out for that $1.6M. They are just acting like good conservatives because they have no dog in the hunt.
    You do realize what you are saying here, right????

    According to what you believe you better have a billion worth of insurance coverage for your company if you do actually own a business. If you put new windows in someones house and a thief breaks in through "YOUR" new window you are liable for everything that thief does. After all it was your window the thief came through. You should have known that a thief could get through that window and put steel bars over it. You were negligent and did not do due diligence on your part so the liability is yours. Even if you had told them they needed bars and they signed a waiver, you are still on the hook. You better hope that the thief kills anyone he/she injures, because if those injuries leave them permanently disabled ain't nobody have pockets that deep.

    That is the world you are saying you believe in, is that really the world you want to live in.

  2. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    You do realize what you are saying here, right????

    According to what you believe you better have a billion worth of insurance coverage for your company if you do actually own a business. If you put new windows in someones house and a thief breaks in through "YOUR" new window you are liable for everything that thief does. After all it was your window the thief came through. You should have known that a thief could get through that window and put steel bars over it. You were negligent and did not do due diligence on your part so the liability is yours. Even if you had told them they needed bars and they signed a waiver, you are still on the hook. You better hope that the thief kills anyone he/she injures, because if those injuries leave them permanently disabled ain't nobody have pockets that deep.

    That is the world you are saying you believe in, is that really the world you want to live in.
    I have a two million dollar policy but I am also aware if I caused a fire and a whole family was killed that policy would be tapped out. Just as Mandalay Bay's policy is being tapped out.

    You say criminal acts are not covered? Do you think I'd be covered if an employee knocked my teeth out?

    That hotel chooses what level of security they employ. They could stop all guns on their property if they wanted to but they choose not to. That alone makes them complicit.

    Are you saying that MGM could fight this lawsuit in court and win?

  3. #42
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    What I am saying is you want to hold the company to a standard that an ordinary company can not stand up to. Sure a Mega corp can pay out millions for what is ultimately the wrong doing of a customer, but a normal company can't. The problem is once you make that leap you have to hold all companies to that same standard. Do you want to be held to the same standard of liability as Ford, or GE, or a multi billion dollar casino? If you can't then you can't hold the mega corp to that standard.

    What if that shooting would have been done through a Mom & Pop motel room, would you expect them to pay out millions? They don't have the deep pockets that a multi billion dollar casino has. You and I don't have those deep pockets either. You can't hold one to a higher standard just because of deeper pockets.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I have a two million dollar policy but I am also aware if I caused a fire and a whole family was killed that policy would be tapped out. Just as Mandalay Bay's policy is being tapped out.

    You say criminal acts are not covered? Do you think I'd be covered if an employee knocked my teeth out?

    That hotel chooses what level of security they employ. They could stop all guns on their property if they wanted to but they choose not to. That alone makes them complicit.

    Are you saying that MGM could fight this lawsuit in court and win?
    You hurt my feelings by things you've said. Even if they weren't directed toward me, I still got hurt. You should have been more careful of what you were saying, and how it could affect my entire outlook on life. My emotional damage will probably affect my kids, grand kids and extended family, so there will be punitive damages. I hope I don't tap your insurance out, but you must pay the price. Yes, you are responsible for my feelings. You should have foreseen all of this.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I do not agree. I believe those hotels choose the amount of security they are willing to use. Could you get a single gun into a concert? No way! Can you get a gun into a fair? No way! Can you get one past TSA? No way! Can you get one into a State or Federal building. No way! So if a business, large or small, wants to keep guns out, they can. The Vegas hotels are choosing not to. They have chosen their level of security and it is minimal which could be easily proven in court.

    Also, this is not a legal issue. It is a civil issue and strictly determined by juries. If 9 out of 12 decide the hotel should pay, they will pay.

    If a contractor screwed up and mis-wired an electrical box, started a fire and killed a few dozen people and taps out the contractors insurance coverage, who pays the extra costs? The hotel does. An employee goes nuts and kills a guest, who pays? The hotel does. If a chandelier falls and kills a baby, who pays? The hotel does. If a man walks in with a machete and takes a guests heads off, who pays? The hotel does. A motorist drives through the front window and kills a few people and only has 15/30 minimum insurance, who will supplement those costs? The hotel does. If there is one ounce of negligence on the hotel's part, they will pay. And there was definitely negligence on the hotels part because if they wanted to keep guns out of their building, plenty of businesses have shown them how to do that. They just choose not to.

    If I leave debris on the sidewalk and a pedestrian trips and gets hurt, who pays? I do. If it happened at work my business liability will pay. If I run into a Porsche on my bike, my HO insurance pays because my bike is part of my house.

    I was in Vegas last weekend. They have installed 12" x 48" steel posts everywhere a pedestrian can be run down by a motor vehicle. IMO, they did this because if another mow-down occurred, they would be liable for not taking all steps to protect the victims.

    I'm just telling you how these things are determined in court and why The Mandalay Bay insurance company is willing to pay 3/4 of a billion dollars. It's not only to protect their image. It's because they would lose in court.

    So if Tool or Glenn had a son killed that night, and it was proven that the hotel was indeed negligent and owed, they'd quickly have their hands out for that $1.6M. They are just acting like good conservatives because they have no dog in the hunt.
    Some concerts don't check for weapons. .last one I went to did not.
    Some state buildings yes...some no.
    State Fair.....No problems here

    But let's go further.....if you check for weapons and miss one and something happens then you kinda set yourself up..as you imposed a weapons free concert for the people....they had the expectation of no weapons and you failed
    Here is the deal....the people at the concert were not shot by someone at the concert.
    State buildings check you for thier own safety...they could care less about you.
    Concerts....they don't want the concert stopped and ruined over a gun fight...again they don't care about you.
    A hotel isn't an event..it's a place to stay and sleep....whether a night a week or a month.
    So with your argument... any violence that breaks out in an apt building has the owners of the apt build liable because they didn't search them everytime they enter the property.
    And even better an armed robbery of a store is the stores fault for not strip searching the guy before he walked in.
    Do the public a favor if you ever get called to jury duty....don't show.




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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    You hurt my feelings by things you've said. Even if they weren't directed toward me, I still got hurt. You should have been more careful of what you were saying, and how it could affect my entire outlook on life. My emotional damage will probably affect my kids, grand kids and extended family, so there will be punitive damages. I hope I don't tap your insurance out, but you must pay the price. Yes, you are responsible for my feelings. You should have foreseen all of this.
    Wouldn't you say that is a little different than watching your wife's brains be sprayed across the cement?

    Your posts are usually better than this.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    What I am saying is you want to hold the company to a standard that an ordinary company can not stand up to. Sure a Mega corp can pay out millions for what is ultimately the wrong doing of a customer, but a normal company can't. The problem is once you make that leap you have to hold all companies to that same standard. Do you want to be held to the same standard of liability as Ford, or GE, or a multi billion dollar casino? If you can't then you can't hold the mega corp to that standard.

    What if that shooting would have been done through a Mom & Pop motel room, would you expect them to pay out millions? They don't have the deep pockets that a multi billion dollar casino has. You and I don't have those deep pockets either. You can't hold one to a higher standard just because of deeper pockets.
    This is not about what I want done or how I perceive this. It is about what will happen in a courtroom and how skilled firms of attorneys will argue it.

    I say that MGM will lose. They were negligent IMO. That is all the attorneys have to show. For them it is easily done. That is why MGM is willing to pay, not because they want to be nice or they want to maintain Mandalay's image. They will lose and the damages and legal fees will far exceed $751M.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Wouldn't you say that is a little different than watching your wife's brains be sprayed across the cement?

    Your posts are usually better than this.
    The point is that our society is already litigious beyond common sense. The small degree of injury exampled demonstrates that point. We can't expect businesses to cover every contingency. Let's examine a different example:

    You're riding your bike. A 'shooter' knocks you off your bike, takes it, rides to the local high school and starts shooting.

    Should you be sued because you didn't anticipate the possibility of a mass shooter stealing your bike? Because you didn't take proper precautions to protect against such an event? If you hadn't allowed him to steal your bike, those kids might still be alive.

    Ridiculous? Yes. As so many law suits are. The U.S. system of litigation needs revamping in the worst way.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    The point is that our society is already litigious beyond common sense. The small degree of injury exampled demonstrates that point. We can't expect businesses to cover every contingency. Let's examine a different example:

    You're riding your bike. A 'shooter' knocks you off your bike, takes it, rides to the local high school and starts shooting.

    Should you be sued because you didn't anticipate the possibility of a mass shooter stealing your bike? Because you didn't take proper precautions to protect against such an event? If you hadn't allowed him to steal your bike, those kids might still be alive.

    Ridiculous? Yes. As so many law suits are. The U.S. system of litigation needs revamping in the worst way.
    I did not allow my bike to be taken from me. The hotel did allow Paddock to bring those firearms up to his room. Would they allow me to bring a motorcycle up to my room?

    None of us are prepared for the worst case scenario just as Mandalay Bay was not. Here's one for you: You crash your car into the back of van full of kids. You kill them all. Will your insurance cover it all. NO! They will take your house and clean you out. They can say why didn't you have a $20M policy...you knew what damage your car can do. I know, not the best comparison.

    We typically only prepare for what is likely to happen. Same with the hotels. They do probability analysis and take their chances. In this instance, MGM lost those odds. Time to pay up or the lawyers and juries will make them pay.

    Juries set the precedent while under the spell of our best attorneys. I know this firsthand now.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post

    That hotel chooses what level of security they employ. They could stop all guns on their property if they wanted to but they choose not to. That alone makes them complicit.
    How could they have stopped it? How could they stop all guns on their property; with a sign?

  11. #50
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    Here's one for you. You crash your bicycle into a parked vehicle which is in plain view of all. By your own admission. For thousands of feet.

    Who is at fault? Who is to blame?


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I did not allow my bike to be taken from me. The hotel did allow Paddock to bring those firearms up to his room. Would they allow me to bring a motorcycle up to my room?

    None of us are prepared for the worst case scenario just as Mandalay Bay was not. Here's one for you: You crash your car into the back of van full of kids. You kill them all. Will your insurance cover it all. NO! They will take your house and clean you out. They can say why didn't you have a $20M policy...you knew what damage your car can do. I know, not the best comparison.

    We typically only prepare for what is likely to happen. Same with the hotels. They do probability analysis and take their chances. In this instance, MGM lost those odds. Time to pay up or the lawyers and juries will make them pay.

    Juries set the precedent while under the spell of our best attorneys. I know this firsthand now.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Here's one for you. You crash your bicycle into a parked vehicle which is in plain view of all. By your own admission. For thousands of feet.

    Who is at fault? Who is to blame?
    Good point.. he is holding the car responsible in his comparison.. while ignoring the fact that he just rear ended a parked vehicle with a flashing arrow visible from thousands of feet away... He doesn't know it but he is arguing that he should have insurance for the accident he was in and it should pay for his damages. .. The fact no one died in his crash only changes the damages not who is responsible

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  13. #52
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    The harassers are over here now. Wish the ARPC could identify this stuff and put a stop to it.

    As a result, I'm out! In my humble opinion, they have some cleaning to do because it won't fix itself.

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