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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Why is Trump being an obstructionist? I think the answer is clear if you remove the partisan blinders.

    For a hypothetical example:

    When I was a business owner I was required to keep records. In an investigation into my business a Grand Jury can ask to see those records, what benefit could I derive by telling them to F off if I were innocent and felt that they were persecuting me unjustly? What benefit would I receive by telling my employees not to appear under threat of losing their job if there was nothing to hide? The Grand Jury has the power to subpoena the records and the people so what would be the point?.
    Would I lawyer up - of course, but to initially show signs of cooperation and then reverse course and refuse any requests and become completely uncooperative does not scream innocence even though I may have not done anything wrong. How would it help my case to point fingers at other people that I suspect of wrong doing even if I have no proof? Would it be wise to accuse the prosecutor and the members of the Grand Jury of treason simply for having the audacity to continue their lawful investigation?

    Why would a sitting president obstruct justice simply because he cannot stand the fact that congress has oversight over his activities?
    How has he obstructed justice?

    Do you consider the last 3 years of 'Get Trump!' to be obstruction on the part of the Dems? What about Russia Collusion? Do you believe any of the (rock solid) evidence that the Left conspired to nullify the election? That it was (in the words of Peter Strzok) an insurance policy in case Trump was elected?

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    You seem to be missing quite a lot here. Trump has set conditions to his cooperation. These conditions aren't unreasonable, and are in the interest of the American Public. Ask yourself...why is this process taking place behind closed doors? Why is the process not open and transparent? Why are the Dems unwilling to go on record, voting as to weather the Impeachment "Inquiry" should be put in motion?

    A lot of whys here. I'm baffled as to why you don't see a problem with the party who has persecuted Trump and screamed for impeachment since before he was inaugurated, and why you don't suspect that this is yet another attempt to nullify?

    Do you truly believe that it's "Truth" the Dems are after?
    Trump's conditions he set are basically whatever he wants to do. He'll provide only the information he wants to provide & hide or obstruct whatever might be unfavorable for him. He has no respect for the law or the Constitution. I do truly believe the Dems are after the truth but that is only because they actually believe he has committed impeachable crimes. It wouldn't make sense to go after impeaching Trump if they didn't believe he committed any crimes when they know he'll never be convicted. Most people agree that impeaching Trump will only hurt the Dems & that is the only reason they have not rushed to impeach him. I'm not arguing that the Dems have persecuted Trump from the beginning but now they might have a valid reason to impeach & they're paying the price for crying "Wolf" too often. I've always had a problem with the Dems going after Trump for every little thing because I knew they would lose credibility when they really did have something serious on him. I'm surprised that you don't have a problem with Trump withholding evidence.
    If he's not guilty it would just be one more thing to prove the Dems are on a witch hunt but if he is guilty then there might be some proof that we are not aware of. It's sad that those who think Trump is guilty want to know all the facts in hope that it proves them right & those who think Trump is innocent don't want to know any of the facts besides what they already think they know.
    Gary
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  3. #16
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    Am I missing something... What is Trump accused of this time

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  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    In response to the dims request for info to impeach. Pretty freakin' good response.

    "I write on behalf of President Donald J. Trump in response to your numerous, legally unsupported demands made as part of what you have labeled — contrary to the Constitution of the United States and all past bipartisan precedent — as an “impeachment inquiry.” As you know, you have designed and implemented your inquiry in a manner that violates fundamental fairness and constitutionally mandated due process."

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...peachment.html

    It goes on and on. Like I said, it's pretty good. Definitely a biatch slap across the face of the dims.
    It won't let me read it...says I need to subscribe..must be one of first views are free thing



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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    Am I missing something... What is Trump accused of this time

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    My understanding is "withholding military aid to the Ukraine to get them to investigate a political rival". Also "obstruction of justice" is a given because the law doesn't apply to Trump.

    So take your pick: Bribery, Treason, High crimes & misdemeanors
    If Trump is guilty of the Ukraine deal then it would probably meet all four of the conditions for impeachment & removal from office.
    Gary
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  6. #19
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    It won't let me read it...says I need to subscribe..must be one of first views are free thing



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    Try using the search words White House letter.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

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  7. #20
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    Gary and Salt, ya'll are thinking logically. Trump is not logical, and least not in the traditional way. While I believe there is a possibility that Trump committed a crime and is therefore obstructing.... I have a strong feeling he hasn't. So why obstruct? If you want to think he is wise/playing a game, it could be that he is laying a trap for the Dems, or more likely just riling up his base, knowing he has nothing to loose. If you don't think he is wise, but rather just throws crap against the wall (what I tend to believe), maybe he doesn't like mommy telling him he can't have cookies, so he hides the cookies. Truthfully once you open up your mind you will realize that with a man like Trump, there are almost infinite reasons he could be obstructing. Ultimately, the reason I don't think the Dems will find anything to stick to him is that he never says anything straight, and with a good legal team he could conjure up reasonable doubt for molesting a puppy on live tv. How to you pin down an erratic mind that speaks in riddles?

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    My understanding is "withholding military aid to the Ukraine to get them to investigate a political rival". Also "obstruction of justice" is a given because the law doesn't apply to Trump.

    So take your pick: Bribery, Treason, High crimes & misdemeanors
    If Trump is guilty of the Ukraine deal then it would probably meet all four of the conditions for impeachment & removal from office.
    The aide is a gift right.
    Also there is no politcal rival...Biden does not have a name on a ballot..no one has been nominated either . No different than investigating you or me.
    Also Trump was having him look into someone else.. not creepy Joe..just because you are Joe's son doesn't mean you can't be investigated.
    Even if it was Joe and Joe was on the ballot.. crimes are crimes... regardless.
    So he should get a free pass because he might run for president?
    Who else you going to ask to investigate a crime in Ukraine ..A foreign leader ofcourse .
    Hey I might run for president...I can commit crimes now lol.
    But remember it wasn't even Joe he is having investigated....so it has nothing to do with Joe.




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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    It won't let me read it...says I need to subscribe..must be one of first views are free thing
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...peachment.html

    White House Letter Impeachment Inquiry.pdf

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Try using the search words White House letter.
    I am gonna try and shoot this one blind...Gary just told me the basis of the crime



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  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    Gary and Salt, ya'll are thinking logically. Trump is not logical, and least not in the traditional way. While I believe there is a possibility that Trump committed a crime and is therefore obstructing.... I have a strong feeling he hasn't. So why obstruct? If you want to think he is wise/playing a game, it could be that he is laying a trap for the Dems, or more likely just riling up his base, knowing he has nothing to loose. If you don't think he is wise, but rather just throws crap against the wall (what I tend to believe), maybe he doesn't like mommy telling him he can't have cookies, so he hides the cookies. Truthfully once you open up your mind you will realize that with a man like Trump, there are almost infinite reasons he could be obstructing. Ultimately, the reason I don't think the Dems will find anything to stick to him is that he never says anything straight, and with a good legal team he could conjure up reasonable doubt for molesting a puppy on live tv. How to you pin down an erratic mind that speaks in riddles?
    Do you believe it possible that he recognizes that he can't trust the Left? Do you believe that the Left has made a 'career' out of their efforts to get Trump?

    Or do you think that 'Orange Man Bad' is a truism that requires their non-stop efforts? And in that case, who will police the "police"?

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    I am gonna try and shoot this one blind...Gary just told me the basis of the crime
    pdf attached here:

    https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread...4#post25792084

  13. #26
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    Isn't creepy Joe obstructing by trying to interfere with an investigation... Technically any Congress member is also obstructing that is coddling little Biden ... Because it's Joes son.. that's obstructing justice

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