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That reminds me: I like Goodman equipment and the local distributors who sell it. I have installed a lot of Goodman equipment, two of the units in my own house are Goodman, and it seems to be well made and reliable brand. Which comes with an excellent warranty that I have Very seldom ever had to use.
But I have this one Goodman system - a 3 ton heat pump - which seems like it's been nine years of routine BS. Some repairable leaks - one where the discharge line enters the condenser coil and one on the center distributor tube where it enters the evaporator. But capacitors, contactors, a condenser fan motor, right now a heat sequencer - it just seems like every few months it's Something with this bastard.
My two Goodman units (a gas furnace and a HP condensing unit running cool only - and not connected to each other) are at least as old and have never missed a beat. Either all other my installed-for-customers units have been equally reliable - or all their owners have fired me - because they all apparently run flawlessly too.
I always see/hear people bad-mouthing Goodman and have always disagreed with their opinions. But then I think of this 3 ton HP I put in for my chiropractor . . . . . <g>
PHM
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Originally Posted by
cehs
NOTICE
It is NOT a Goodman...!
PHM
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When faced with the choice between changing one's mind, and proving that there is no need to do so, most tend to get busy on the proof.
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Originally Posted by
Poodle Head Mikey
That reminds me: I like Goodman equipment and the local distributors who sell it. I have installed a lot of Goodman equipment, two of the units in my own house are Goodman, and it seems to be well made and reliable brand. Which comes with an excellent warranty that I have Very seldom ever had to use.
But I have this one Goodman system - a 3 ton heat pump - which seems like it's been nine years of routine BS. Some repairable leaks - one where the discharge line enters the condenser coil and one on the center distributor tube where it enters the evaporator. But capacitors, contactors, a condenser fan motor, right now a heat sequencer - it just seems like every few months it's Something with this bastard.
My two Goodman units (a gas furnace and a HP condensing unit running cool only - and not connected to each other) are at least as old and have never missed a beat. Either all other my installed-for-customers units have been equally reliable - or all their owners have fired me - because they all apparently run flawlessly too.
I always see/hear people bad-mouthing Goodman and have always disagreed with their opinions. But then I think of this 3 ton HP I put in for my chiropractor . . . . . <g>
PHM
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Not sure if you remember my old Goodman installs I posted on here years ago, PHM.
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To everyone
lzenglish is taking a break. He received infraction points for each of his rude posts.
Now.. I know lzenglish and Adlerberts-Protege have a history here but there was no cause for these attacks by lzenglish.
His account will reopen when his infractions allow automatically.
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Post Likes - 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
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Originally Posted by
Poodle Head Mikey
That reminds me: I like Goodman equipment and the local distributors who sell it. I have installed a lot of Goodman equipment, two of the units in my own house are Goodman, and it seems to be well made and reliable brand. Which comes with an excellent warranty that I have Very seldom ever had to use.
But I have this one Goodman system - a 3 ton heat pump - which seems like it's been nine years of routine BS. Some repairable leaks - one where the discharge line enters the condenser coil and one on the center distributor tube where it enters the evaporator. But capacitors, contactors, a condenser fan motor, right now a heat sequencer - it just seems like every few months it's Something with this bastard.
My two Goodman units (a gas furnace and a HP condensing unit running cool only - and not connected to each other) are at least as old and have never missed a beat. Either all other my installed-for-customers units have been equally reliable - or all their owners have fired me - because they all apparently run flawlessly too.
I always see/hear people bad-mouthing Goodman and have always disagreed with their opinions. But then I think of this 3 ton HP I put in for my chiropractor . . . . . <g>
PHM
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It seems to be hit or miss with Goodman in my experience.I have had people bad mouth them then and some praise them.Some would never purchase a Goodman,but loved Amana.I believe it's all about who was working the line it rolled off of at the plant,who installed it,and how well it was maintained.All manufacturers have their flaws here and there sooner or later.I just dislike they sale to the public online and now so many others as well.I was told the other day a local Trane distributor had a sighn that said "we now sale to the public". Dont know how true that is but I have no reason to not believe who told me.And that disappoints me being a Trane Installer at the moment.
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That's funny too - I have consistently had bad luck with both Trane equipment and with their local distributor. The last straw was them screwing me out of an $800. in-warranty compressor reimbursement a couple years ago.
I'll never buy another piece of Trane equipment and have just very recently told a few customers that. I installed Rheem for one and Thermal-Zone for another.
PHM
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Originally Posted by
mikel7829
It seems to be hit or miss with Goodman in my experience.I have had people bad mouth them then and some praise them.Some would never purchase a Goodman,but loved Amana.I believe it's all about who was working the line it rolled off of at the plant,who installed it,and how well it was maintained.All manufacturers have their flaws here and there sooner or later.I just dislike they sale to the public online and now so many others as well.I was told the other day a local Trane distributor had a sighn that said "we now sale to the public". Dont know how true that is but I have no reason to not believe who told me.And that disappoints me being a Trane Installer at the moment.
PHM
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When faced with the choice between changing one's mind, and proving that there is no need to do so, most tend to get busy on the proof.
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we've been installing Rheem for the last year or so, they seem to be pretty good units. our guys just did 2 25 ton RTU's.....we'll see how they do. we've done several smaller RTU's, splits, etc. Only issues we've really had has been controls, not related to the units, and distributor not getting correct accessories. I'm interested to see how they fair in the long run.
and I'll prolly jinx myself, but my home system is a goodman, installed in 1998. it's been a good system....had a few issues over the years, but nothing out of the ordinary for a 20 year old system......reminds me, I guess it's time for winter check out before startup! lol!
Since Trane (ingersall-Rand) took over our area, service has turned toward the corporate mentality of "you need us more than we need you".....sad really. I don't see them maintaining the market share like they once did. when it was a franchise, they dominated the area.
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Originally Posted by
Dad
To everyone
lzenglish is taking a break. He received infraction points for each of his rude posts.
Now.. I know lzenglish and Adlerberts-Protege have a history here but there was no cause for these attacks by lzenglish.
His account will reopen when his infractions allow automatically.
As with our previous GURU, it was a long time coming......I hope he returns with a new outlook.
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Originally Posted by
Poodle Head Mikey
That reminds me: I like Goodman equipment and the local distributors who sell it. I have installed a lot of Goodman equipment, two of the units in my own house are Goodman, and it seems to be well made and reliable brand. Which comes with an excellent warranty that I have Very seldom ever had to use.
But I have this one Goodman system - a 3 ton heat pump - which seems like it's been nine years of routine BS. Some repairable leaks - one where the discharge line enters the condenser coil and one on the center distributor tube where it enters the evaporator. But capacitors, contactors, a condenser fan motor, right now a heat sequencer - it just seems like every few months it's Something with this bastard.
My two Goodman units (a gas furnace and a HP condensing unit running cool only - and not connected to each other) are at least as old and have never missed a beat. Either all other my installed-for-customers units have been equally reliable - or all their owners have fired me - because they all apparently run flawlessly too.
I always see/hear people bad-mouthing Goodman and have always disagreed with their opinions. But then I think of this 3 ton HP I put in for my chiropractor . . . . . <g>
PHM
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Mikey, you know that it is never the equipment- it is the install. The problem with Goodman is that anyone can buy and "attempt" to install it.
I installed a Goodman 11 years ago. My first install with no micron gauge (I let the pump run for 3 days over the weekend plus Monday). Only thing I ever replaced was a hard start cap.
At one time Goodman had some top engineers and really good technical data.
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Originally Posted by
Adlerberts-Protege
I have to show up to this crap almost on a daily basis. This is what my guys are installing in a million dollar home. Sickening to say the least.
Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
If this was the situation that I was put in, I would be calling my boss to let him know that I will be a while on this start up. When he asks why, I would send him a picture and let him know what materials the idiots who installed this will need to bring with them when they show up so I can show them how to do it properly.
If he does not have a problem with this install, time for new job.
How could anyone walk away from this and call it done?
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I immediately thought of you last night!
I was going to take the little woman to Italy for a couple weeks for her birthday but before I mentioned it she shyly said that she'd like to have a rebuilt LR for her birthday - so I kept the Italy idea to myself. <g>
So the LR has been torn to bits for the last month. Behind the wall the stat was mounted on is the stairway down to the basement. The wall was all open anyway so during demo and the staircase build I just hung the stat on a nail on the back side of the wall. The wall is now rocked and two days ago I thought: stat's got to be mounted eventually - I'll do it now and then remove it again to paint. The AC had been fine but it's gotten cool so I switched on the heat after I mounted the stat. This stat is connected to a Goodman horizontal furnace in the basement.
My 2 year old and I were playing on the floor yesterday and the air blowing on us was cold. Checked and the room was 67º and the stat was set to 70º. Oh Shet! Now the heat is broke? Did I change the stat hot? Touch R/C together pulling the wires? Blew a fuse? No wait; the blower is on - so I have control power. I can't work on it while guarding him from every boy-thing he can find to get into in the basement so I waited until a nap.
This is a modestly complicated heating/cooling system which also has an electric duct heater with some of the elements wired in series and some of the wiring comes through that control panel. Power comes from two separate sources - hell; I can't remember where the control power comes from - I haven't worked on it, or even thought about it for years - so I just start in:
OK; 240 to the duct heater
No transformer in here
Must be in the furnace.
Where the hell do these control wires go?
What is this interlock?
Where does this separate two-wire go?
Finally I find that everything in the basement is OK. There's control power R-C but none W-C.
Oh shet! Did I somehow burn a contact in the stat? Are these HW 8000's still under warranty? What a pain in the ass!
And the whole time in the back of my head your words are rocketing around:
Prolly jinx myself (saying how reliable and trouble-free Goodmans are!) <g>
So I go back to the stat and find that whatever idiot wired it to get the AC back on didn't bother connecting the W wire to the stat. <g>
PHM
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Originally Posted by
71CHOPS
. . . . I'll prolly jinx myself, but my home system is a goodman, installed in 1998. it's been a good system....had a few issues over the years, but nothing out of the ordinary for a 20 year old system . . . .
PHM
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When faced with the choice between changing one's mind, and proving that there is no need to do so, most tend to get busy on the proof.
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Post Likes - 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
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Originally Posted by
Poodle Head Mikey
I immediately thought of you last night!
I was going to take the little woman to Italy for a couple weeks for her birthday but before I mentioned it she shyly said that she'd like to have a rebuilt LR for her birthday - so I kept the Italy idea to myself. <g>
So the LR has been torn to bits for the last month. Behind the wall the stat was mounted on is the stairway down to the basement. The wall was all open anyway so during demo and the staircase build I just hung the stat on a nail on the back side of the wall. The wall is now rocked and two days ago I thought: stat's got to be mounted eventually - I'll do it now and then remove it again to paint. The AC had been fine but it's gotten cool so I switched on the heat after I mounted the stat. This stat is connected to a Goodman horizontal furnace in the basement.
My 2 year old and I were playing on the floor yesterday and the air blowing on us was cold. Checked and the room was 67º and the stat was set to 70º. Oh Shet! Now the heat is broke? Did I change the stat hot? Touch R/C together pulling the wires? Blew a fuse? No wait; the blower is on - so I have control power. I can't work on it while guarding him from every boy-thing he can find to get into in the basement so I waited until a nap.
This is a modestly complicated heating/cooling system which also has an electric duct heater with some of the elements wired in series and some of the wiring comes through that control panel. Power comes from two separate sources - hell; I can't remember where the control power comes from - I haven't worked on it, or even thought about it for years - so I just start in:
OK; 240 to the duct heater
No transformer in here
Must be in the furnace.
Where the hell do these control wires go?
What is this interlock?
Where does this separate two-wire go?
Finally I find that everything in the basement is OK. There's control power R-C but none W-C.
Oh shet! Did I somehow burn a contact in the stat? Are these HW 8000's still under warranty? What a pain in the ass!
And the whole time in the back of my head your words are rocketing around:
Prolly jinx myself (saying how reliable and trouble-free Goodmans are!) <g>
So I go back to the stat and find that whatever idiot wired it to get the AC back on didn't bother connecting the W wire to the stat. <g>
PHM
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I just put in a new heat pump system yesterday. Waited for time delay no ac but got blower. Check y to c at condenser nothing. Check splice at furnace still no hot at y. Crawl in the tight crawl to check the splice I made down there moving the stat, beautiful splice. Scratch my head for a minute because it can't be the new stat I put in. Sure enough this idiot put y on y2 for a single stage HP. One of these days I'll learn to check all the easy things first.
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that's funny.....you guys motivated me to finally turn the heat on today. the Ol' girl fired right off! Woohoo!! hopefully get another year out of her!
I've been kicking around the idea of installing a 2 stage 80K gas furnace. I think the 100K is too large now that we've insulated some of the rooms, and installed new windows. also gonna install a second system upstairs eventually.....I've always thought it would be gas, but I might also do a heat pump with it. I've remodeled the house from inside out over the last 20 years, but still more to do!
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Originally Posted by
71CHOPS
that's funny.....you guys motivated me to finally turn the heat on today. the Ol' girl fired right off! Woohoo!! hopefully get another year out of her!
I've been kicking around the idea of installing a 2 stage 80K gas furnace. I think the 100K is too large now that we've insulated some of the rooms, and installed new windows. also gonna install a second system upstairs eventually.....I've always thought it would be gas, but I might also do a heat pump with it. I've remodeled the house from inside out over the last 20 years, but still more to do!
You think or know? Do a heat load calc. Let us know the results.
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Originally Posted by
Poodle Head Mikey
So I go back to the stat and find that whatever idiot wired it to get the AC back on didn't bother connecting the W wire to the stat. <g>
PHM
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What an idiot!!! I would NEVER do things like that.
Oh wait - I have. And too many times to remember all of them. Actually, I have to go back today to finish what I didn't finish at 8:00 PM on Wednesday. (reduce the condenser MOCP, insulate the condenser suction line and haul off the last of the trash.)
Never mind. Move along. Nothing to see here. <g>
If "I have always done it this way" is a good reason to do it again, how many times do I have to do something wrong - before it becomes right?
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Originally Posted by
Adlerberts-Protege
You think or know? Do a heat load calc. Let us know the results.
I may do one.....never seem to very motivated with my own stuff! LOL! when I bought my house (built in 1925), the windows were so bad, the mostly closed bedroom door would knock against the frame as the wind blew! now we have all new windows, I've insulated some of the rooms, etc., I "think" I don't need as many heating BTU's as I used to! LOL!!
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Originally Posted by
71CHOPS
I may do one.....never seem to very motivated with my own stuff! LOL! when I bought my house (built in 1925), the windows were so bad, the mostly closed bedroom door would knock against the frame as the wind blew! now we have all new windows, I've insulated some of the rooms, etc., I "think" I don't need as many heating BTU's as I used to! LOL!!
Post your home specs and someone here will do it. Lazy ass. Lol.
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Originally Posted by
71CHOPS
that's funny.....you guys motivated me to finally turn the heat on today. the Ol' girl fired right off! Woohoo!! hopefully get another year out of her!
I've been kicking around the idea of installing a 2 stage 80K gas furnace. I think the 100K is too large now that we've insulated some of the rooms, and installed new windows. also gonna install a second system upstairs eventually.....I've always thought it would be gas, but I might also do a heat pump with it. I've remodeled the house from inside out over the last 20 years, but still more to do!
If you do a heat pump, take a look at the Bosch. I have been quite impressed with the ones I have installed. Customers are real happy.
My house was built in 1910. Only have 100 amps, so probably go with ducted mini-splits. No room for ducts. If I did ducts I would loose too much of my walk up attic space. Hate to loose that. Ducted minis consume less space.
I will keep my oil boiler for a backup.
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I get the venting part, but my experience is the work reflects the owner. Everyone hires crap employees at some point, but if that bothered the owner it would get cleaned up quick. Email off photos of that to the service manager, sales guy, and owner with the title "home owner wants to know why his expensive new system looks like a child put it together". That's usually good for a laugh when the S hits the fan
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Originally Posted by
thatguy
Originally Posted by
Metalman0880
I’ll say this. I hold myself along with all our employees to a high standard. If I had people installing stuff like this one of a few things would happen:
1) they would be back there fixing that correctly
2) they would be terminated after fixing it
3) if they didn’t fix it I’d just fire them
4) if the boss wouldn’t let me fire them I’d walk
We all know help is tough, but it’s not worth keeping someone as an extra pair of hands with THAT kind of bs.
I can understand the frustration when this happens but finding that kind of work and knowing who did it gives an excellent opportunity to teach them how to do it proper and explain to them why. If you were to always fire someone when they make mistakes then you will always be hiring the new guy who will make the same mistakes that the last guy made, and giving the guys that have just been taught a good lesson to your competitors. If you teach them to take pride in their work, show them the art of the trade, and train them to be good techs then you can form that tech into a great asset to the company.
I partially agree with Metalman0880 and with thatguy. I have some questions for you guys (and any other veterans reading this).
What I would want to know is whether the tech:
(A) just made a mistake and didn't know better, or
(B) intentionally did a crappy job (so knew better but chose not to do what he knew how to do).
If #A, he has low skill but he's honest so he can learn and become high skill in the near future.
If #B, he has high skill but doesn't use it cuz he's dishonest, and his dishonesty prevents him from doing a good job and from improving his skill (there's tons of other problems with dishonesty too).
So, is it feasible to judge from the pictures in the OP whether or not the tech is an A or a B? (I'm asking cuz I don't know the first thing about HVAC)
Or would you have to have a discussion with the installer in order to figure out if he's an A or a B? And if so, how would you have that discussion? What questions would you ask designed to find out if he's an A or a B?
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