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Thread: Impeachment

  1. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    My question is when it goes to the Senate are the same ones screaming about fairness going to want the Senate to be fair?
    We know the senate is not going to remove Trump from office under any circumstances but what kind of show are they going to put on. Unlike most here, I've been against impeachment not because of how the Democrats would run the investigation & hearings but because of the sham that the Republicans would put on in the Senate. At least the House Democrats made an attempt to hear from the witnesses with first hand knowledge of Trump's plan but I doubt the Senate Republicans will even want to hear from them. Their job is to protect their job & the party at all costs. Their Constitutional duty is a distant second. I have the same low opinion about the Democrats but I just happen to think they have a valid case against Trump.
    The reason why is because this is insanity over nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    While Ukraine may not show up on all top 10 lists of corrupt countries, Petro Poroshenko scores high in most top 10 corrupt leaders lists. Given that he so recently "left" his position, the "poisoned tree' is still producing. I'd guess that makes Ukraine pretty corrupt. Just as here, there are many 'Obama holdouts'...even moles, you can guess what may still exist (even thrive) in Ukraine. And we are giving them money and arms. Is this not worthy of caution, even a prompting for investigation?

    We can't dismiss the possibility Ukraine's role in our 2016 elections, nor what Trump's motives were that are now under scrutiny, nor can we put absolute faith in the results of the Schiff Show.

    The only hard fact we do know is that Schiff will present Articles of Impeachment regardless of the "evidence". Or do you actually believe that this is all really about 'justice'?
    It is much worse than what you stated. Don't listen to david too much. I did misstate my original comment from something I did run across a few days ago. I believe they ranked Ukraine as the 3rd most corrupt in Europe. Other places have listed it as the most corrupt. David had to jump on my post because, though the point was crystal clear, I got their ranking slightly wrong. But where they are on the list wasn't the actual point of my post. It was that they are INCREDIBLY corrupt. Yes, getting better over the last couple years. But still really bad. That was the point of my post.

    And again I'll state, giving money to a country as corrupt as Ukraine has historically been is much more of an impeachable offense, IMHO.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...europe-ukraine

    https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-pol...?cn-reloaded=1

    https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/corruption.htm

    https://kafkadesk.org/2019/01/30/hun...ies-in-the-eu/

    https://www.transparency.org/news/pr...ntry_in_europe

    https://www.unian.info/society/10016...russia-ti.html
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley

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  4. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I don't think the Dems ever thought that the Senate would remove Trump from office no matter how much evidence they had. I don't know why they went for impeachment when they had to know they couldn't win in the end. Maybe it was out of anger & frustration with the man, just a political move for 2020, a way to put the Senate on the spot & show their partisanship, a way to show the public the kind of man we have for president, a feeling of duty to our country & who knows what other possible reasons. Either way I don't think the Senate would convict Trump if he admitted to the charges, so I have even less respect for the Republicans than i do the Democrats.
    I wonder if it had anything to do with the IG Report coming out?

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  6. #1512
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  8. #1513
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I'll go with extortion for personal gain, abuse of power & obstruction of justice.
    Who did he extort?
    What obstruction of Justice.. when?



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  10. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    It is much worse than what you stated. Don't listen to david too much. I did misstate my original comment from something I did run across a few days ago. I believe they ranked Ukraine as the 3rd most corrupt in Europe. Other places have listed it as the most corrupt. David had to jump on my post because, though the point was crystal clear, I got their ranking slightly wrong. But where they are on the list wasn't the actual point of my post. It was that they are INCREDIBLY corrupt. Yes, getting better over the last couple years. But still really bad. That was the point of my post.
    3rd worst in Europe is very different from 3rd in the world. Europe you are talking about Belarus, Moldova, and then either Ukraine or Russia depending. Yes I jumped on it... because it was wrong, and not just slightly.

  11. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    While Ukraine may not show up on all top 10 lists of corrupt countries, Petro Poroshenko scores high in most top 10 corrupt leaders lists. Given that he so recently "left" his position, the "poisoned tree' is still producing. I'd guess that makes Ukraine pretty corrupt. Just as here, there are many 'Obama holdouts'...even moles, you can guess what may still exist (even thrive) in Ukraine. And we are giving them money and arms. Is this not worthy of caution, even a prompting for investigation?
    Poroshenko was over 4 years, and when you realize UA is a 25'ish year old country, that is forever ago. And I keep saying I am fine with demanding improvement from UA... but you should state their corruption correctly... including their improvement regarding corruption. Don't facts matter?

  12. #1516
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    But it was a quid pro quo, extortion, bribery, or whatever the dims are trying to tag Trump with. Depending on the results from the focus group(s), the term seems to keep changing.


    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    When bath house Barry withheld aid it wasn’t to force the Ukraine to hurt a political rival.

    Anywho... hope it’s a long drawn out trial.. and taped. The whistle guy, Bidens... bring em all in.

    Hooty hoot... hooty hoot
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

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    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  13. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    But it was a quid pro quo, extortion, bribery, or whatever the dims are trying to tag Trump with. Depending on the results from the focus group(s), the term seems to keep changing.
    I think "Crimes Against Nature" is next in line for backing out of the Paris Accord.

  14. #1518
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    I wouldn't doubt it. So far, I haven't heard anything that even comes close to an impeachable offense. Trump is just doing the same thing every president before him has done.


    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    I think "Crimes Against Nature" is next in line for backing out of the Paris Accord.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  15. #1519
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    Poroshenko was over 4 years, and when you realize UA is a 25'ish year old country, that is forever ago. And I keep saying I am fine with demanding improvement from UA... but you should state their corruption correctly... including their improvement regarding corruption. Don't facts matter?

    Over 4 years...what? If you mean his term, it spanned June 2014-May 2019.

    If your point is that the stated corruption number should be correct, granted. If it's that their level of corruption didn't warrant Trump's caution, incorrect.

    Note that UKR is a close 2nd to Russia in corruption.

    Here's some (2018-2019) links:

    https://ti-ukraine.org/en/research/c...ns-index-2018/

    Name:  Corruption map.jpg
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    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/corruption-index

    https://www.unian.info/politics/1042...rnational.html


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...ceptions_Index

    Name:  Corruption index scale.PNG
Views: 32
Size:  8.3 KB

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  18. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    Over 4 years...what? If you mean his term, it spanned June 2014-May 2019.

    If your point is that the stated corruption number should be correct, granted. If it's that their level of corruption didn't warrant Trump's caution, incorrect.

    Note that UKR is a close 2nd to Russia in corruption.

    Here's some (2018-2019) links:

    https://ti-ukraine.org/en/research/c...ns-index-2018/

    Name:  Corruption map.jpg
Views: 30
Size:  36.3 KB

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/corruption-index

    https://www.unian.info/politics/1042...rnational.html


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...ceptions_Index

    Name:  Corruption index scale.PNG
Views: 32
Size:  8.3 KB
    I had Poreshenko mixed up with Yancovich, my mistake. But my main point is that top 3 Europe is worlds apart from top 3 world. I have never denied UA corruption, but it is improving rather steadily... but most importantly, whatever corruption the Bidens might have been involved in UA, it is miniscule in relation to the country at large and the only reasonable reason Trump was involved was self interest.

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