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Thread: Impeachment

  1. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that points to Trump but if you don't believe it does then of course you think there is no evidence. I thought by now the conversation would be, "so what if he held back arms to get dirt on Biden" but I underestimated the power Trump holds over his supporters.
    What if he actually did do that?
    What's the big deal.
    Aid is held up all the time... already been established
    There was already an investigation going of the crime ring anyway.... That's also already already been established.
    Politicians dig up dirt on each other all the time.
    This dirt on Biden however is getting a prosecutor fired to save his boy...using govt funds to do that.
    There is nothing wrong with it even if it turned out that way(Trump)...just another day in Washington



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  2. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    What evidence? The only person that had direct contact with the president was Sondland and he said no QPQ. Everything else was watercooler talk and or made up. Almost every witness to a person had an ax to grind against Trump. The WB never testified so we only know what Schiff said he said which turns out to be nothing. Th e only other evidence is the transcript which one can read into it what they want but that does not work to prove intent so then you have to go back to what Sondland said Trump said and that was no QPQ, then you have to add to that the investigation was never done and they ended up with the foreign aid.

    This discussion reminds me of GC and his cones. His issue was outside the use of cones, they didn't matter as he didn't see a parked truck with a flashing sign 1000' away. The UK Pres said there was no pressure in the call, the ambassador said there was no QPQ, so the phone call was just a call between two leaders talking foreign affairs. Stuff gets said that can be misconstrued and that's all we have.
    Sondland said that Giuliani said if there is no announcement of an investigation against Biden then Trump won’t meet with the Ukrainian President, ergo quid pro quo. Everyone and their mother knows that Rudy is doing Trumps bidding. Hard to imagine anyone not accepting that. If people want to debate if it’s a high crime or misdemeanor that’s fine but what happened is quite clear.


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  3. #1433
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    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    Sondland said that Giuliani said if there is no announcement of an investigation against Biden then Trump won’t meet with the Ukrainian President, ergo quid pro quo. Everyone and their mother knows that Rudy is doing Trumps bidding. Hard to imagine anyone not accepting that. If people want to debate if it’s a high crime or misdemeanor that’s fine but what happened is quite clear.


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    But there was never an announcement and the meeting is scheduled and they got the funds. So where is this alleged QPQ?

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  5. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that points to Trump but if you don't believe it does then of course you think there is no evidence. I thought by now the conversation would be, "so what if he held back arms to get dirt on Biden" but I underestimated the power Trump holds over his supporters.
    Sorry Gary, this tag won't hold with me. I think Pence would be a better pres than Trump, but he is what we got now. I am looking at the bigger picture.

    If we let the Dem leadership get by with this the next guy doesn't have a chance. If it is another GOP the dems will open the playbook again and unless the guy is pure s the driven snow the poor guy is toast. If it is a Dem the GOP will do the same thing. It will escalate and we will be deeper in the basement of the outhouse than we are now. The division of the citizens will get wider and we will continue down the road of loosing what little we have left of this once great country.

    While I don't like Trump I would much rather deal with him out in the open than Obama that would lie to your face then go behind your back to do what he wants. When this all shakes out I would hope that government corruption peaked under Obama, can start to come down after Trump leaves office, and improves with each pres after. I know one huge pipedream but that is better than a living nightmare that we have been dealing with since Clinton or before.

  6. #1435
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    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    Sondland said that Giuliani said if there is no announcement of an investigation against Biden then Trump won’t meet with the Ukrainian President, ergo quid pro quo. Everyone and their mother knows that Rudy is doing Trumps bidding. Hard to imagine anyone not accepting that. If people want to debate if it’s a high crime or misdemeanor that’s fine but what happened is quite clear.


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    There was already an investigation underway...The only thing Trump is guilty of is wanting Ukraine to announce it..He was wanting a "leak"
    Just like the Democrats here leak anything damaging.
    And still no one questions the Biden crime ring even yet.
    Why?... because impeachment talk and making Biden out to be a victim




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  7. #1436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    What a joke. I can't believe people are this naive about the "system".

    Biden will never be held to account. He will never investigated, and certainly not to the extent Trump is. If anything it will be a show investigation. But I doubt that will even happen.

    It's amazing how people's eyes are so closed to the bias and double standard.

    The ONLY time any democrat is held to account for their actions is if it serves to get a republican. The only reason AL Frankin was ousted is because they were trying to get Trump for his sexual abuses. If Trump didn't have sexual accusations against him Frankin would still be in office. That's how evil the left is.

    So unless going after Biden will inflict damage to Trump, he won't be touched for what he did.

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    No Brian, you keep interjecting Biden as the criminal. Mixing up the issues.
    Is Biden guilty of something? We don't know. Now your trying to make an argument with Frankin. Irrelevant to this issue. The only question today is Trump.

    Eyes are not closed to the issue at hand and that's Trump. Quit trying to dilute the mix and stick to the issue of Trump and National security.
    I don't care if Biden is guilty of something. Maybe we'll find out. But not by insisting on changing focus.
    If Trump graduates to an actual impeachment and is found guilty, would you accept the decision? It sounds like you wouldn't.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

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  8. #1437
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    But there was never an announcement and the meeting is scheduled and they got the funds. So where is this alleged QPQ?
    The scheme was against the law. Whether it was followed thru on or not.
    Zelinsky never went on cnn because trump released the funds when the wh got wind of the whistle blower....or right after that.
    They got caught and had to abort the mission.

    Still a crime.

  9. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    Apparently they are hundreds of days behind on Biden..but are not a Day behind on Trump



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    Biden is a civilian. Big difference yes?
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  10. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Do you know what circumstantial evidence Is?

    Circumstantial evidence relates to a series of facts other than the particular fact sought to be proved.

    PHM
    --------

    The fact that the aid to the Ukraine was held up is circumstantial evidence. The fact that Biden's name was mentioned in the transcript of Trump's call is circumstantial evidence, a lot of the testimony in the impeachment hearings is circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is used to draw a conclusion of guilt or innocence all the time.
    What is your point?
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  11. #1440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    There are already protections in place in the federal Govt... You can't fire due to a complaint.
    The fundamental right In American has always been able to face your the accusser... The whistle blower act goes against that fundamental right... All you are doing is wishing away the Constitution a little at a time.

    But let's go further.... Let's say you have a person that makes a complaint two or three times a week against an individual but they are minor violations and nothing can be done.
    The complaints stack up ... They you are tried for one... But in reality are being tried for all of them.
    I believe in being able to come forward.. do it like an adult... Not a preschooler... Tommy tells Tammy that Fred took his pudding... Well we need to talk to Tommy ... He might be giving his pudding away...doesn't like it... Or traded it for all we know.


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    A hearing is not a trial. Testimony is not scrutinized like it would be if this graduated into a trial. An example would be allowing hearsay evidence. That's not allowed at trial although there are ways around it.
    If this did go to trial I don't thing the whistle blower testimony would be necessary because the witnesses have better information. If the WB was the only witness to a crime they would probably be called. But the WB was not alone. Others dared to speak out even if not believed by T's devotees.
    To be the WB on a sitting President is a scary thing especially the extent T's followers might go to. Trump has recruited some extremists, lots of guns, and T encourages them every chance he creates. "Go ahead. Sock him and I'll pay the legal fees." Sick mother. Division in America.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  12. #1441
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    The fact that the aid to the Ukraine was held up is circumstantial evidence. The fact that Biden's name was mentioned in the transcript of Trump's call is circumstantial evidence, a lot of the testimony in the impeachment hearings is circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is used to draw a conclusion of guilt or innocence all the time.
    What is your point?
    Absolutely and any criminal lawyer can tell you that most people in jail are there based on circumstantial evidence or that that evidence was the primary reason for a conviction.
    Compelling evidence.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  13. #1442
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    A hearing is not a trial. Testimony is not scrutinized like it would be if this graduated into a trial. An example would be allowing hearsay evidence. That's not allowed at trial although there are ways around it.
    If this did go to trial I don't thing the whistle blower testimony would be necessary because the witnesses have better information. If the WB was the only witness to a crime they would probably be called. But the WB was not alone. Others dared to speak out even if not believed by T's devotees.
    To be the WB on a sitting President is a scary thing especially the extent T's followers might go to. Trump has recruited some extremists, lots of guns, and T encourages them every chance he creates. "Go ahead. Sock him and I'll pay the legal fees." Sick mother. Division in America.
    A hearing is a legal process before Trial.
    This Impeachment hearing is a civil matter....yep you have those same rights as in the "Criminal" trial to follow.

    You go on to say the whistle blower testimony isn't needed at a trial....Wow.. you missed the entire point of being being able to face the accuser.
    The reason these are in place...we could just invent bogus whistleblowers to do anything we wanted ... how would you feel if they decided to raid your house based off of nothing..."A whistleblower said"...doesn't fly...first one we talk to is the whistle blower..as that is the chain of evidence



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  14. #1443
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    No Brian, you keep interjecting Biden as the criminal. Mixing up the issues.
    Is Biden guilty of something? We don't know. Now your trying to make an argument with Frankin. Irrelevant to this issue. The only question today is Trump.

    Eyes are not closed to the issue at hand and that's Trump. Quit trying to dilute the mix and stick to the issue of Trump and National security.
    I don't care if Biden is guilty of something. Maybe we'll find out. But not by insisting on changing focus.
    If Trump graduates to an actual impeachment and is found guilty, would you accept the decision? It sounds like you wouldn't.
    All of these things don't make sense to you because you don't get it.

    Biden is bright up because it's part of the discussion. Including discussed hy you. I was responding to your comment. Did you not mention Biden?

    Ok, there is one thing you are clueless about.

    Second is.... I brought up Frankin to explain that Democrats NEVER pay a price UNLESS it serves an alternative purpose of the evil left. Biden will not get investigated. Except for maybe a "show" investigation that will likely serve to bury evidence vs actually uncover evidence. The only way Biden would get truly investigated is if the evil left determines he could serve as a sacrificial lamb. Which is exactly what happened to Frankin. My point for bringing his name up. He's an example of something the evil left undeniably does. His ouster was an attempt to give the evil left credibility in the attempt to get Trump kicked from office for his sexual misdeeds.

    I'm trying to explain to you guys how the left operates. I don't call it an evil movement lightly. And another thing. Before you guys pull this tactic again. For the millionth time. By calling the leftist movement evil doesn't mean Im praising the Washington "right". They both suck. But the leftist movement is truly evil. Stating I support the right and have blinders on because I rip into left unmercifully is a dirty trick meant to deflect what the left truly is. That's another tactic you guys use because you've been trained well by..... an evil movement. Weird how that works, huh? My posts are an effort to not praise the Washington "right", but to shine a light on what the left really is.

    Capisce?

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