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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
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    Residential is under paid as a general rule simply due to the hours and unpredictability. Many a man has missed large periods of their children's lives. I could not imagine having young children as a residential service tech - would require a special woman...special relationship.
    Is the Religious Right to blame for Christianity's decline?

    They argued that, as the Religious Right became increasingly visible and militant, it became associated with Christianity itself. And if being a Christian meant being associated with the likes of Jerry Falwell, many people—especially political moderates and liberals—decided to simply stop identifying as Christians altogether.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...nitys-decline/

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Broomall, PA
    Posts
    2,879
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    This is why you need unions to set/maintain the better wages and quality of life, even the non-union workers benefit. When the unions go, the wages/working conditions will collapse.

    You also need to weed out the hacks that lower the wages and standards, with licensing, accountability & required continuous education.

    Local municipalities pretty much let anything fly in residential because they lack skill, training, accountability and resources.

    I don't think I'm underpaid, but the perception by homeowners is I charge too much.
    They think nothing of paying a plumber what amounts to $200-$300 hours, same for an electrician.
    They think nothing of paying $150-$350 for an office visit to a doctor (maybe because some/most/all is covered by insurance) for a simple 10 minute 'follow up' appointment.
    Ironically we're held to a higher standard than a doctor-Compare the scenarios

    Scenario #1
    -You visit a doctor for an ailment. You wait and then in 10 minutes you get, "It seems like this. Take this, If you're not better in a week come back" (fee for office visit/co-pay, plus prescription).
    -You don't feel better, you go back. Now the doctor wants some labs done (fee for office visit/co-pay, plus lab fees and more of your time).
    -Follow up appointment (fee for office visit/co-pay). Now he wants to run some tests.
    -You go get the tests (time/fee/co-pay)
    -Then you go back again for another follow up visit (time/fee/co-pay), and we'll say the problem is identified/solved, whatever.
    This is basic body troubleshooting dictated by best practices, insurance re-imbursement, etc.
    At no time is the doctor told he doesn't know what he's doing, it took 4 visits to solve the problem, I'm not paying, I'm suing you, etc. Nor do you go in for a headache and the doctor prescribes immediate brain surgury.

    Scenario #2 Basic service call
    -No cooling.
    -You check everything out. YOUR initial checkout of everything doesn't conclusively find a readily identifiable problem, but some minor issues that you correct. You tell the customer what you did, what you checked, your conclusion. Give them a bill (it's too high, of course), collect (hopefully), go on your way. Perfectly normal troubleshooting scenario-doing your due diligence and not conclusively finding a problem.
    -They call you back, say a week later, no cooling. You check everything out again, and the actual problem has shown itself, checkable and provable. You fix it, present a bill. Now the static starts. Why didn't you find it the first time? Why do I have to pay again? They go online to ask other to see if you did your job correctly or if they were ripped off.

    Even though you did the same basic things a doctor did, their perception is completely different.
    If I do a job in 30 minutes it's because I spent 30 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    615
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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEusaPA View Post
    This is why you need unions to set/maintain the better wages and quality of life, even the non-union workers benefit. When the unions go, the wages/working conditions will collapse.

    You also need to weed out the hacks that lower the wages and standards, with licensing, accountability & required continuous education.

    Local municipalities pretty much let anything fly in residential because they lack skill, training, accountability and resources.

    I don't think I'm underpaid, but the perception by homeowners is I charge too much.
    They think nothing of paying a plumber what amounts to $200-$300 hours, same for an electrician.
    They think nothing of paying $150-$350 for an office visit to a doctor (maybe because some/most/all is covered by insurance) for a simple 10 minute 'follow up' appointment.
    Ironically we're held to a higher standard than a doctor-Compare the scenarios

    Scenario #1
    -You visit a doctor for an ailment. You wait and then in 10 minutes you get, "It seems like this. Take this, If you're not better in a week come back" (fee for office visit/co-pay, plus prescription).
    -You don't feel better, you go back. Now the doctor wants some labs done (fee for office visit/co-pay, plus lab fees and more of your time).
    -Follow up appointment (fee for office visit/co-pay). Now he wants to run some tests.
    -You go get the tests (time/fee/co-pay)
    -Then you go back again for another follow up visit (time/fee/co-pay), and we'll say the problem is identified/solved, whatever.
    This is basic body troubleshooting dictated by best practices, insurance re-imbursement, etc.
    At no time is the doctor told he doesn't know what he's doing, it took 4 visits to solve the problem, I'm not paying, I'm suing you, etc. Nor do you go in for a headache and the doctor prescribes immediate brain surgury.

    Scenario #2 Basic service call
    -No cooling.
    -You check everything out. YOUR initial checkout of everything doesn't conclusively find a readily identifiable problem, but some minor issues that you correct. You tell the customer what you did, what you checked, your conclusion. Give them a bill (it's too high, of course), collect (hopefully), go on your way. Perfectly normal troubleshooting scenario-doing your due diligence and not conclusively finding a problem.
    -They call you back, say a week later, no cooling. You check everything out again, and the actual problem has shown itself, checkable and provable. You fix it, present a bill. Now the static starts. Why didn't you find it the first time? Why do I have to pay again? They go online to ask other to see if you did your job correctly or if they were ripped off.

    Even though you did the same basic things a doctor did, their perception is completely different.
    I am printing out these scenarios to be able to repeat them to my customers!!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    1,354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Push It View Post
    I am printing out these scenarios to be able to repeat them to my customers!!
    Dr.'S have allways " practiced medicine " which gets them off the hook.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Sea to Sky
    Posts
    3,453
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayp0817 View Post
    I can agree with you somewhat, but plumbers and electricians have so much responsibility that you can literally burn down an office, tower, etc depending on job. Same with plumbers, you mess up on the 19th floor and you can flood 5 floors down during a repair. Note, certain counties you have to be licensed journeyman or State certified contractor to actually do work. Plumbing and Electrical also branches into Industrial and City sewers, mains, etc. I guess it really depends on the City and Wages in those areas. Here in Miami, the inspectors are rough on Building, Electrical and Plumbing. Not so much on HVAC...
    Disagree with that. Refrig tech could cost someone hundreds of thousands of dollars if they offline a rack system for a large warehouse or grocery store.

    Chiller tech could force the cancellation of hundreds of scans if they offline a MRI chiller.

    HVAC tech could force the shutdown of hundreds of banking servers if they offline a server room cooling system.

    Any major electrical issue could cause as much havoc as any electrician could inflict.

    Causing a chilled water leak could cause as much damage as any plumber could inflict.

    Yet HVAC/R needs to be worried about all three facets. Our pay should reflect that.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

  6. Likes 2sac liked this post
  7. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    104
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    Disagree with that. Refrig tech could cost someone hundreds of thousands of dollars if they offline a rack system for a large warehouse or grocery store.

    Chiller tech could force the cancellation of hundreds of scans if they offline a MRI chiller.

    HVAC tech could force the shutdown of hundreds of banking servers if they offline a server room cooling system.

    Any major electrical issue could cause as much havoc as any electrician could inflict.

    Causing a chilled water leak could cause as much damage as any plumber could inflict.

    Yet HVAC/R needs to be worried about all three facets. Our pay should reflect that.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

    HVAC tech could also mistakenly reset the UPS at Arizona Ice Tea main networks and knock out their internet for the day

  8. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Sea to Sky
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    Quote Originally Posted by superheatmaster View Post
    HVAC tech could also mistakenly reset the UPS at Arizona Ice Tea main networks and knock out their internet for the day
    Lol.....do I need to ask you how you know?

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

  9. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    104
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    Lol.....do I need to ask you how you know?

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

  10. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
    Posts
    2,831
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    Quote Originally Posted by superheatmaster View Post
    HVAC tech could also mistakenly reset the UPS at Arizona Ice Tea main networks and knock out their internet for the day
    Or leave a loose hose on an 8th floor apartment WSHP and the tenant is gone for the weekend.....
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

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