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  1. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    LOL,... Yes it did.

    Tell me Dude, .... At what Temperature does The Titanium Alloy in those Engines melt at?

    Now,... Tell me What Temperature does the Jet Fuel produce in "Pooled/Splashed Situations"?

    Now, as you say "Connect th' dots",...........................Ooops! There is enough heat to do what Big Brother stated is there?

    Except maybe, .....in your "Reality TV World".
    I would like to comment on the "melting point" of titanium. It melts at 3,000 F and aluminum melts at 1220 F. Now (not trying to tell a war story here but) we used Sheridan Tanks in the 11th ACR in Nam.

    We lost one Sheridan Tank when it melted to the ground when a 51 cal. hit one of the smoke grenade launchers on the side of the turret. The smoke grenades when off in place melting the tank instead of shooting off as designed to set up a smoke screen.

    You see the tank was "air droppable" and was made light as possible. They used a compound of aluminum and titanium for the turret. Don't know how much titanium was used but that is what we were told and I saw one melt down and the 155 rounds inside go off.

    You had to evacuate the tank immediately if this happened or if you hit a mine all were doomed inside because the 155 rounds didn't have a shell casing. The power charge was stuck to the HE round and a spark would set it off.

    Bottom line is that the aluminum on the plane burns at 1220 F and I'm sure once it starts burning the temperature goes way up and melts the titanium just like it did on the Sheridan Tanks. Yeah. Thank you, thank you very much.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Sen. Barry Goldwater

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Why????

    You're capable of "Massive Mental Flatulence", without any encouragement.
    It's a conspiracy theory about as stupid as the other ones you believe. I assumed you'd be on board.





    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley

  3. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Don't turn this into a conspiracy kook thread. All I will say is it is a 100% CERTAINTY that a AA 757 hit the Pentagon. There is absolutely no question about it. None. Zero. The evidence is so overwhelming I'd wager my kids lives on it.

    I don't know how else to make you realize how much of a conspiracy nut you are. But the mind of a conspiracy nut is completely locked off to reality. Jesus Christ himself could tell you it was a AA 757 and it wouldn't convince you. Your mind is gone.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    Then You are 100% Wrong., & Your Kids would lose their Lives.

    Go back to the Technical Question,..... At What Temperature does ATI Ti-6Al-4V, Grade 5 alloy Melt, let alone "Vaporize"?

    Now, what is the Temperature given off by Commercial Aviation Jet Fuel in a "Pooled"/"Splashed" Scenario? Especially when it is a poorly burning fire, as indicated by many of the Videos/Pics of the Yellow / Heavy smoke producing flames?

    Please apply the same Diagnostic Procedures to this as You would in an HVAC/Refrig Situation, ..., Unless of curse, Your "Herded Mentality" stops You Logically looking at ALL of the Data.

    "Jesus Christ himself could tell you it was a AA 757 and it wouldn't convince you. "


    Well Brian,..... You can Rest Easy on that, Cuz',..... The Messiah wouldn't Lie about it, & support your & a great many others Delusion that was induced by the Government.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  4. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    The Bretton Woods Accord ?

    You're kidding, right? If we are going to talk about Ken Galbraith's work - maybe we should first examine how closely The Fed has adhered to it. <g>

    Bretton woods tied world currencies, and trading exchanges, including oil, to a gold-standard-dollar - dollars could be exchanged for gold on demand. At the time the US had something in excess of 20,000 tons of gold. After the European bankers organized a raid on our gold, starting with the French, Nixon shut them down by de-coupling the dollar to gold. As a result, although America still owns more gold that any other country - we have far less of it than we once did. Less than half as much now. But, with Bretton Woods essentially gutted, oil is not the substitute behind the dollar's reserve-currency status. The US Dollar is simply the strongest, most stable, and convenient currency. Of course it doesn't hurt that there is simply nothing comparable as a substitute - and not by a very long shot.

    PHM
    -------
    Yeah,..... I jumped the Gun on that one,..... After the Billions wasted on Viet Nam, & the Billions wasted on LBJ's Social Programs, problems arose over the value of the Dollar, & many nations became worried, & decided to go ahead & cash in their "Dollars" for Gold. Nixon's Administration saw that there was going to be a "Run on th' Bank" kinda/sorta, & put an end to "Bretton Woods", allegedly on a Temporary Basis. :

    The end of the Bretton Woods System (1972–81)

    "By the early 1960s, the U.S. dollar's fixed value against gold, under the Bretton Woods system of fixed exchange rates, was seen as overvalued. A sizable increase in domestic spending on President Lyndon Johnson's Great Society programs and a rise in military spending caused by the Vietnam War gradually worsened the overvaluation of the dollar.

    End of Bretton Woods system

    The system dissolved between 1968 and 1973. In August 1971, U.S. President Richard Nixon announced the "temporary" suspension of the dollar's convertibility into gold. While the dollar had struggled throughout most of the 1960s within the parity established at Bretton Woods, this crisis marked the breakdown of the system. An attempt to revive the fixed exchange rates failed, and by March 1973 the major currencies began to float against each other.

    Since the collapse of the Bretton Woods system, IMF members have been free to choose any form of exchange arrangement they wish (except pegging their currency to gold): allowing the currency to float freely, pegging it to another currency or a basket of currencies, adopting the currency of another country, participating in a currency bloc, or forming part of a monetary union.


    Oil shocks

    Many feared that the collapse of the Bretton Woods system would bring the period of rapid growth to an end. In fact, the transition to floating exchange rates was relatively smooth, and it was certainly timely: flexible exchange rates made it easier for economies to adjust to more expensive oil, when the price suddenly started going up in October 1973. Floating rates have facilitated adjustments to external shocks ever since.

    The IMF responded to the challenges created by the oil price shocks of the 1970s by adapting its lending instruments. To help oil importers deal with anticipated current account deficits and inflation in the face of higher oil prices, it set up the first of two oil facilities.

    Helping poor countries

    From the mid-1970s, the IMF sought to respond to the balance of payments difficulties confronting many of the world's poorest countries by providing concessional financing through what was known as the Trust Fund. In March 1986, the IMF created a new concessional loan program called the Structural Adjustment Facility. The SAF was succeeded by the Enhanced Structural Adjustment Facility in December 1987."

    https://www.imf.org/external/about/histend.htm

    ---------------

    " Standing on Its Own as the World’s Reserve Currency

    As a result of the Bretton Woods Agreement, the U.S dollar was officially crowned the world’s reserve currency, backed by the world’s largest gold reserves. Instead of gold reserves, other countries accumulated reserves of U.S. dollars. Needing a place to store their dollars, countries began buying U.S. Treasury securities, which they considered to be a safe store of money.

    The demand for Treasury securities coupled with the deficit spending needed to finance the Vietnam War and the Great Society domestic programs caused the United States to flood the market with paper money. With growing concerns over the stability of the dollar, the countries began to convert dollar reserves into gold. The demand for gold was such that President Richard Nixon was forced to intervene and delink the dollar from gold, which led to the floating exchange rates that exist today. Although there have been periods of stagflation–high inflation and high unemployment–the U.S. dollar has remained the world’s reserve currency.
    Present Day


    Today, more than 61% of all foreign bank reserves are denominated in U.S. dollars, according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Many of the reserves are in cash or U.S bonds such as U.S. Treasuries. Also, approximately 40% of the world's debt is denominated in dollars.

    The reserve status is based largely on the size and strength of the U.S. economy and the dominance of the U.S. financial markets. Despite large deficit spending, trillions of dollars in foreign debt, and the unbridled printing of U.S. dollars, U.S. Treasury securities remain the safest store of money. The trust and confidence that the world has in the ability of the United States to pay its debts has kept the dollar as the most redeemable currency for facilitating world commerce.
    "

    https://www.investopedia.com/article...e-currency.asp
    -------------------

    As far as America holding the largest quantity of Gold, that's disputed by some that watch the Markets, for Russia, China & India are quickly building up their holdings of Gold, & even discussing a joint currency to use, other than the "Dollar".

    Saudi Arabia has not dictated the Value of the Dollar, nor did Saudi Arabia put the Dollar in place as the World's Trading Currency, or whatever along that kine that Brian was saying.

    But, The Dollar, .... is Absolutely in Trouble, & especially now during The Twitter-in-Chief's Administration, as The EU./ Russia/ China/ India, & many other Nations are seeking means to by-pass/ do away with the Dollar, & Trump's Tariffs/Sanctions.

    And, ... Believe it or not, all of this Brouhah over the Dollar is somewhat tied in with 9-11, in several ways, but, .... Perhaps You can tell me Podle, for Brian is avoiding the question,.....

    What temperature is required to melt the Titanium Alloy that made up quite a bit of that Jet Airliners Engines, & what Temperature will that Jet Fuel produce in a "Pooled"/"Splashed" Situation?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    I would like to comment on the "melting point" of titanium. It melts at 3,000 F and aluminum melts at 1220 F. Now (not trying to tell a war story here but) we used Sheridan Tanks in the 11th ACR in Nam.

    We lost one Sheridan Tank when it melted to the ground when a 51 cal. hit one of the smoke grenade launchers on the side of the turret. The smoke grenades when off in place melting the tank instead of shooting off as designed to set up a smoke screen.

    You see the tank was "air droppable" and was made light as possible. They used a compound of aluminum and titanium for the turret. Don't know how much titanium was used but that is what we were told and I saw one melt down and the 155 rounds inside go off.

    You had to evacuate the tank immediately if this happened or if you hit a mine all were doomed inside because the 155 rounds didn't have a shell casing. The power charge was stuck to the HE round and a spark would set it off.

    Bottom line is that the aluminum on the plane burns at 1220 F and I'm sure once it starts burning the temperature goes way up and melts the titanium just like it did on the Sheridan Tanks. Yeah. Thank you, thank you very much.
    Glen, have You got links/data on that Titanium in the Sheridan Tanks?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    It's a conspiracy theory about as stupid as the other ones you believe. I assumed you'd be on board.





    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    You're gonna need to wipe yer chin again Brian,... Maybe a "Drool Pad" would help.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  7. #85
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Glen, have You got links/data on that Titanium in the Sheridan Tanks?
    chirp.... chirp...
    The bible is my constitution and the constitution is my bible.

    WE THE PEOPLE refers to THEM and not YOU.

    Chewbacca Mom 2016

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Glen, have You got links/data on that Titanium in the Sheridan Tanks?
    Glenn, You need to check Your Data,... Per many Sources that I Checked, such as, the one below, that turret apparently was made of Steel, not Titanium, & Aluminum :

    https://armyhistory.org/m551-sheridan-light-tank/

    "Weighing approximately sixteen tons, the M551 Sheridan’s hull was constructed from aluminum alloy, while the turret was made of steel. The Sheridan was 22 feet, four inches long, 13 feet, 6 inches wide, and 12 feet, 6 inches tall. Powered by a General Motors 6V53T, six cylinder 300-horsepower supercharged diesel engine, the Sheridan could reach road speeds of nearly 45 miles-per-hour. It had a cruising range of 373 miles. The Sheridan was amphibious, capable of swimming across water obstacles at a speed of four miles-per-hour. It could also be air dropped to provide fire support to airborne units."

    ------

    http://www.military-today.com/tanks/m551_sheridan.htm
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  9. #87
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    Gentlemen,

    As I Said Before, I'm putting together a bunch of Data that I have found as well as that which I requested from various Corporations, & even the Government about the "Melting Point"/ Vaporization point for the Titanium Alloy used in the Production of the Jet Engines, & other parts of that plane.

    Here's a "Sample" of what I'm putting together below. Scroll down the chart & look at the temperature that is required to "Boil Titanium":

    Titanium 5954 F.

    Now, .... Call me a "Fool", "Conspiracist", etc.,...... But doesn't "Boiling" a material have to occur before it is "Vaporized"?

    And, ..... Can any of You "Plane Vaporized" Proclaimers show Me Documented Evidence that Jet Fuel "Pooled"/"Splashed", readily produces a 5954 Degree Fire, even when it is producing Yellow Flames & Heavy Smoke?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Glenn, You need to check Your Data,... Per many Sources that I Checked, such as, the one below, that turret apparently was made of Steel, not Titanium, & Aluminum :

    https://armyhistory.org/m551-sheridan-light-tank/

    "Weighing approximately sixteen tons, the M551 Sheridan’s hull was constructed from aluminum alloy, while the turret was made of steel. The Sheridan was 22 feet, four inches long, 13 feet, 6 inches wide, and 12 feet, 6 inches tall. Powered by a General Motors 6V53T, six cylinder 300-horsepower supercharged diesel engine, the Sheridan could reach road speeds of nearly 45 miles-per-hour. It had a cruising range of 373 miles. The Sheridan was amphibious, capable of swimming across water obstacles at a speed of four miles-per-hour. It could also be air dropped to provide fire support to airborne units."

    ------

    http://www.military-today.com/tanks/m551_sheridan.htm
    Yeah David I looked it up also. Didn't have time to respond. We were told that when we got them in Nam.

    Didn't hear it at the Armored School at Fort Knox but in the field by an officer. We didn't question what we were told.

    I guess I forgot it was the hull and not the turret which was made from an aluminum alloy which we were told was Titanium and aluminum probably to make us feel better about them.

    I was a "ACAV" track commander (Sgt). Our platoon Sgt and Lt commanded the 2 Sheridan Tanks in our platoon.

    So I was no expert on them. Just tried to keep my track and squad squared away.

    We switched to diesel engines for our tracks in late 68 and early 69.

    Because a 51 cal. chicom MG fire could cause the gas to explode in the track wiping the crew out. .

    Then we only needed diesel fuel dropped to us in large rubber bladers.

    Anyhow it's been a long time since I was there in the mosquitoe infested hot jungle. Memory has a way of fading over time. Yeah. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Sen. Barry Goldwater

  11. #89
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    With all due respect David, at this point you're building a house without first building the foundation.

    There was plane debris all over the place. To say the plane vaporized, you would need extraordinary evidence. You claim someone said that, but, as I have said before, that sounds more like a figurative descriptor, not a literal scientific explanation.

    You would better serve your case by first finding evidence that the metal in the airplane turned from solid to vapor.

    First result in search for showing planes did not vaporize:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...yths-pentagon/

    This one is a bit more tedious, but the lead photo shows all sorts of plane debris that never made it into the building. And does mention in the body of the text no vaporization:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...yths-pentagon/

    You see, that word [vaporize] was most likely used in a casual sense, not by any means in a scientific manner.


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Gentlemen,

    As I Said Before, I'm putting together a bunch of Data that I have found as well as that which I requested from various Corporations, & even the Government about the "Melting Point"/ Vaporization point for the Titanium Alloy used in the Production of the Jet Engines, & other parts of that plane.

    Here's a "Sample" of what I'm putting together below. Scroll down the chart & look at the temperature that is required to "Boil Titanium":

    Titanium 5954 F.

    Now, .... Call me a "Fool", "Conspiracist", etc.,...... But doesn't "Boiling" a material have to occur before it is "Vaporized"?

    And, ..... Can any of You "Plane Vaporized" Proclaimers show Me Documented Evidence that Jet Fuel "Pooled"/"Splashed", readily produces a 5954 Degree Fire, even when it is producing Yellow Flames & Heavy Smoke?
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

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  13. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Yeah I looked it up also. Didn't have time to respond. We were told that when we got them in Nam.

    Didn't here it at the Armored School at Fort Knox but in the field by an officer. We didn't question what we were told.

    I guess I forgot it was the hull and not the turret which was made from an aluminum alloy which we were told was Titanium and aluminum which makes sense.

    I was a "ACAV" track commander (Sgt). Our platoon Sgt and Lt commanded the 2 Sheridan Tanks in our platoon.

    So I was no expert on them. Just tried to keep my track and squad squared away. We switched to diesel engines for our tracks in late 68 and early 69. Because a 51 cal. chicom MG fire could gas to explode in the track. Then we only needed diesel fuel dropped to us in large rubber bladers. Anyhow it's been a long time since I was there in the mosquitoe invested hot jungle memory has a way of fading over time. Yeah. Thank you, thank you very much
    No Sir,.... The Hull was an Aluminum Alloy & the Turret was Steel.

    At a later date, in order to protect against Mines,.. Titanium plates were added to the flooring.

    Since You added this in the fray about the planes vaporizing,... I thought Hey! Is it possible? So as to put this puppy to bed over the Titanium engines melting/vaporizing, & that took about 20 minutes to search for the data.

    The Titanium Plates,& kevlar were added prior to the invasion of Panama, but the turret has always been steel.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  14. #91
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    Jeez, now we're going to have to have this thread merged with the other merged 911 threads.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

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