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  1. #92
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    That's sure going to make things confusing!
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  2. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    With all due respect David, at this point you're building a house without first building the foundation.

    There was plane debris all over the place. To say the plane vaporized, you would need extraordinary evidence. You claim someone said that, but, as I have said before, that sounds more like a figurative descriptor, not a literal scientific explanation.

    You would better serve your case by first finding evidence that the metal in the airplane turned from solid to vapor.

    First result in search for showing planes did not vaporize:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...yths-pentagon/

    This one is a bit more tedious, but the lead photo shows all sorts of plane debris that never made it into the building. And does mention in the body of the text no vaporization:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...yths-pentagon/

    You see, that word [vaporize] was most likely used in a casual sense, not by any means in a scientific manner.

    BB,.... There was no evidence of a Fuselage, Wheels, Wings, Bodies, any of the engines, the usual luggage /clothing etc.
    which has predominately been presented with Plane Crashes since the late 40s.

    "To say the plane vaporized, you would need extraordinary evidence."

    BB,... Are You "Pullin' my chain"? Are You Seriously stating that until now,..... You've never heard the claims of the plane wreckage having vaporized?

    I've seen both pf the Popular Mechanics narratives,.... You have to do better than that.

    And as I said, I'm putting all of that data together, in between My Work, & Other matters, but,again,..... There was no readily Identifiable Wreckage of a Jet Air-liner at the Pentagon, & Brother,....... [COLOR="#0000FF"]Nose cones of those Jets, that nearly get destroyed when the collide with birds while in flight, are not going to penetrate three rings of offices built of steel reinforced concrete & retain it's shape. [/COLOR]

    No Jet Air liner hit the Pentagon.

    Howz about those Temps BB,.... How is that Jet Fuel capable of destroying those engines?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  3. #94
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    Now that You mention it,..... How th' Hale did it go from another Senseless Military action that the Twitter-in-Chief is gonna get us involved in, ... To what Falsely started this "War on Terror"?

    And as far as merging the 9-11 threads,..... I'm thinking that's just going to add more confusion to the matter, in an attempt to stop all discussion about 9-11.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  4. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    No Sir,.... The Hull was an Aluminum Alloy & the Turret was Steel.

    At a later date, in order to protect against Mines,.. Titanium plates were added to the flooring.

    Since You added this in the fray about the planes vaporizing,... I thought Hey! Is it possible? So as to put this puppy to bed over the Titanium engines melting/vaporizing, & that took about 20 minutes to search for the data.

    The Titanium Plates,& kevlar were added prior to the invasion of Panama, but the turret has always been steel.
    Funny David reread my last post. I said it was was the hull made of an Aluminum alloy and not the turret which makes sense. .

    In my first post going by my fading memory I said it was the turret which was wrong.

    Can't remember everything and what is wrong with you? When I make a correction you go off and say the opposite of what I said. Geez. Thank you, thank you very much
    Last edited by glennac; 09-20-2019 at 08:41 PM.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Sen. Barry Goldwater

  5. #96
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    Correct.

    Plenty of plane wreckage at the site.


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post

    BB,.... There was no evidence of a Fuselage, Wheels, Wings, Bodies, any of the engines, the usual luggage /clothing etc.
    which has predominately been presented with Plane Crashes since the late 40s.

    "To say the plane vaporized, you would need extraordinary evidence."

    BB,... Are You "Pullin' my chain"? Are You Seriously stating that until now,..... You've never heard the claims of the plane wreckage having vaporized?

    I've seen both pf the Popular Mechanics narratives,.... You have to do better than that.

    And as I said, I'm putting all of that data together, in between My Work, & Other matters, but,again,..... There was no readily Identifiable Wreckage of a Jet Air-liner at the Pentagon, & Brother,....... [COLOR="#0000FF"]Nose cones of those Jets, that nearly get destroyed when the collide with birds while in flight, are not going to penetrate three rings of offices built of steel reinforced concrete & retain it's shape. [/COLOR]

    No Jet Air liner hit the Pentagon.

    Howz about those Temps BB,.... How is that Jet Fuel capable of destroying those engines?
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  6. #97
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    If they tried to put me in one of those crawlin coffins I would have told them to sod off and would have thrown my gear down and went home.
    The bible is my constitution and the constitution is my bible.

    WE THE PEOPLE refers to THEM and not YOU.

    Chewbacca Mom 2016

  7. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    If they tried to put me in one of those crawlin coffins I would have told them to sod off and would have thrown my gear down and went home.
    Well corn when I got the big bird going home there was a group of around 20 to 30 troops dressed in plane khakis marched on the plane after we all got on in our jungle fatigues.

    They were in double file cuffed to each other escorted by some MPs with reserved seating in the rear where I was. All going to the military prison at Ft. Leavenworth.

    That's where you would be going (not home) with a Dishonorable Discharge and up to 5 years to serve for refusing to go on a combat mission.

    None of them even said a word to each other much less us during the long flight home.

    They had already spent some time in the living hell of LBJ (Long Binh Jail) housed in either tents or individually for serious offenses in 5x7 sheet metal boxes or 9x7 metal conexs in the hot sun located at Long Binh Base Camp on the South side of Sagion.

    Yeah they would have broke you from sucking eggs and being insuborinate. LOL. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Sen. Barry Goldwater

  8. #99
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    Troops are being deployed to Saudi...

  9. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Correct.

    Plenty of plane wreckage at the site.

    I'll refer You to post #93 again, & then I would like for You to provide Links to verifiable evidence that shows
    "Plenty of plane wreckage at the site".

    It ain't there BB.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  10. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by superheatmaster View Post
    Troops are being deployed to Saudi...
    I've seen that Superheat, & at this point, the "Talking Heads" are saying that it's a "Moderate Deployment", while at the same time saying that "it won't involve thousands of troops." ----- Say What?!?

    With being exposed to decades of "Double-speak", "False Flags", Rejecting what was True Yesterday & Embracing the Lie Today, ..... I'm thinking somewhat that George Orwell, who wrote the book "1984" was somewhat of a Secular Prophet.

    America is very close to getting involved in another Un-declared War, with a Fanatical Nation whose Islamic Belief is that the World must be involved in a World Wide Catastrophic, & Unprecedented War, that will bring about the Coming of their "Mahdi", or the Muslim version of the "Christ". SMH.

    What happened to the Twitter-in-Chiefs campaign promise of "Bringing the troops home."?!?!?

    And, ... With all of the Billions of Dollars of Military Equipment that America has sold to the Saudis,...... How in the Hale is it America's Responsibility to go after the Iranians, ...."IF", they even did attack Saudi Arabia?????

    This is like Viet Nam all over again, but on Steroids.

    But this time around, .... America is already "Over-deployed", & "Under-equipped", as well as "Under-manned", & ..... Russia & China will not sit back, & let Trump have his way with Iran.

    All of this & much more is Giving Life to the "Last Days Prophecies".
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  11. #102
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    Is this what you are referring to:

    "Nose cones of those Jets, that nearly get destroyed when the collide with birds while in flight, are not going to penetrate three rings of offices built of steel reinforced concrete & retain it's shape."

    Of course the plane will not retain its shape. Regarding the damage the plane can do, it's all about kinetic energy. Look up the formula for kinetic energy. Then look up the weight of the plane including nearly topped up with a full load of fuel. Then look up the speed of the plane. Those are the numbers you will need to calculate the kinetic energy.

    The formula is similar to E=mc2. Mass and speed. Except the speed is squared. So the faster you go, the energy increases at a much faster rate.

    No, the metal that made up the aircraft did not turn into vapor, but when it gave up its energy, it was torn to shreds.


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post

    I'll refer You to post #93 again, & then I would like for You to provide Links to verifiable evidence that shows
    "Plenty of plane wreckage at the site".

    It ain't there BB.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  12. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Is this what you are referring to:

    "Nose cones of those Jets, that nearly get destroyed when the collide with birds while in flight, are not going to penetrate three rings of offices built of steel reinforced concrete & retain it's shape."

    Of course the plane will not retain its shape. Regarding the damage the plane can do, it's all about kinetic energy. Look up the formula for kinetic energy. Then look up the weight of the plane including nearly topped up with a full load of fuel. Then look up the speed of the plane. Those are the numbers you will need to calculate the kinetic energy.

    The formula is similar to E=mc2. Mass and speed. Except the speed is squared. So the faster you go, the energy increases at a much faster rate.

    No, the metal that made up the aircraft did not turn into vapor, but when it gave up its energy, it was torn to shreds.
    BB,.... The "Hole" that was found at the Pentagon, 14 or 15 Foot in Diameter?,in to the third ring of the Pentagon.....could not have been made by a Plane, that can be so easily be so easily malformed in flight, by simply colliding with birds.

    And as far as the "Kinetic Energy/Math"? Part of my researching this led me to a "Activist/Mathematics Teacher", & here's what he has come up with that "Kinetic Energy", in relationship to the Plane hitting The Pentagon:

    " I'm fixing an my calculations to include the energy involved in the fuel reaction with the air. This calculation is more involved and more accurate than the assumptions I had about raising the fuel to the boiling point. Since the fuel would have burned in reaction long before all of the fuel was raised to the boiling point in the event of ignition, this seemed to be the more appropriate model. Note however that the conclusions are the same, since now the gases of the reaction absorb a signifigant portion of the heat. I will have the finalized version ASAP. Probably by this weekend if not sooner.

    Right now, you are reading the original version.

    # # # # # #

    If the plane that hit the pentagon truly vaporized, then we can do a calculation to determine how fast the plane would have to be traveling for this to occur. For the purposes of simplicity I will assume the plane is an object of pure aluminum, with a Boiling point of 2519° C. The people, the luggage, and the seats will be ignored. This should not present a problem since these materials have a very low specific heat, and also constitute only about 15% of the total weight of the aircraft.

    When an object is moving through the air it has a certain amount of kinetic energy. When the object collides with a stationary building, this kinetic energy is converted to other forms of energy, mostly heat. We will assume all the kinetic energy is converted into heat.

    If the heat is all then converted to vaporizing the Aluminum, then the heat caused the temperature to reach the boiling point. Thus, we have the kinetic energy equal to the heat necessary to make the aluminum vaporize.

    ole.gif .



    m = the mass in kilograms

    v = the velocity in meters per second

    △T = change in temperature, in Celsius degrees (or Kelvin)

    S = Specific Heat , in Joules / kg*C°

    Since the equation has the same variable “m” on both sides we can divide by m. Then multiply by 2 and take the square root to solve for the necessary velocity. Or,

    ole1.gif



    Now the Specific Heat of Aluminum (S) is 900, and the change of temperature from 25° C to 2519° C is about 2500° C.
    So calculating the meters per second, we get



    ole2.gif

    In order to convert the speed of meters per second to miles per hour, we will multiply the miles per meter (to cross-cancel meters and convert to miles) and then multiply 3600 seconds per hour (to cross-cancel seconds and convert to hours.) This results in the conversion factor of 2.236.

    And so after multiplying 2.236, our final answer is 4743.2722 miles per hour.

    Now if all of the Kinetic Energy could not have been converted to heat, that 747 passenger plane that hit the pentagon would have had to been able to travel well over 5000 miles per hour ?

    Newsflash! The top speed of a Boeing 767 is 680 miles per hour. In other words, it is impossible for a plane to fly at full speed into anything and become instantly vaporized because the plane cannot fly at the very high speeds that would be necessary to generate that kind of heat.




    * * *

    Now, lets assume that some of the heat could have come from the exploding of jet fuel. Note that not all of the heat created from the jet fuel would have gone to the melting of the aluminum, but we will nevertheless make that assumption. So this time the Kinetic Energy of the plane PLUS the heat created from exploding fuel will equal the heat necessary to vaporize the aluminum.

    ole3.gif





    I will assume that the jet fuel has similar characteristics of kerosene. There were about 10,000 gallons of jet fuel which has a density of 3.068 kg/gal . So the mass of 10,000 gallons would be 30,680kg. The specific heat of jet fuel 2100 J/kg*C°. The boiling point of jet fuel is 162.77° C – or about 150 degrees change from room temperature.

    You can go to http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/read/1064 if you want a more detailed look at the chemistry and energy involved from a kerosene based fuel reaction with oxygen. I will however avoid this discussion. I will merely assume all of the fuel is converted to heat by raising the temperature to the boiling point since the plane vaporized almost immediately upon impact, so the heat from burning fires will not be included.

    As for the math, this time when we divide by the mass “m” of the plane, we get the ratio of the fuel mass to the plane mass in the 2nd term on the left side of the equation. A fully loaded 767 Boeing aircraft weighs 159,200 kg. Thus the ratio of fuel mass to plane mass is

    ole4.gif

    Or about 20%. Now solving the above equation for the velocity “v” of the plane, we get

    ole5.gif





    ole6.gif

    After multiplying by 2.236, this becomes 4676.395 miles per hour. Even if you assume the fuel burned at 1400 degrees , the result is still 4076.63 miles per hour, which is still quite impossible of a speed for a 767 Boeing jet to attain. And even this speed is under the extreme assumption that all of the kinetic energy and all of the energy created from the jet fuel was converted into the heat that vaporized the Aluminum.

    * * *

    Yet this speed cannot even be obtained if the plane dropped straight to the ground from the maximum altitude of commercial planes : at 40,000 meters. By letting the kinetic energy equal the potential energy due to gravity we can determine the speed of an object that falls from the sky to the ground.

    ole7.gif

    Or if you solve this equation for the velocity “v” , you get : ole8.gif , where “h” is the height and “g” is the gravitational constant. So,

    ole9.gif

    Or 1,979.83 miles per hour. And this is at the maximum height of commercial planes WITHOUT INCLUDING wind resistance and terminal velocity. The plane that hit the pentagon however, did not begin it’s dive towards the Pentagon at 40,000 meters, but at 3,000 meters. So the plane could not have reached speeds greater than 4,000 miles per hour.

    * * *

    Now let’s assume the plane could have been traveling at 1,000 miles per hour upon impact with the Pentagon. How much more energy “E” would have been necessary to generate the heat required to vaporize the aluminum?

    Or, ole10.gif



    Let’s assume also that the fuel was burning at 600 ° C in order to include some aspect of heat from the fires of burning fuel . This is 4 times the boiling point of jet fuel. So if we solve for E .

    ole11.gif






    And using the values for the variables that have been earlier described, we get

    ole12.gif

    ole13.gif Joules



    Or 2.399432 x 108 kilo-joules. How much more energy is this exactly? One kilo-watt hour is equivalent to 3600 kilo-joules. So this extra energy is equivalent to 66,650.8888 kw-hours, about enough energy to power 100 family residences for an entire month (assuming 750 kw-hrs per month.)

    4.184 × 106 kilo-Joules is the energy released by explosion of 1 ton of TNT. So the extra energy would be equivalent to 57.3478 tons of TNT. And this is a very low end limit based on the assumption that the fuel energy was burning at 600 ° C, instead of 150 ° C. ( Note: At the lower temperature, the extra energy would be 64.277 tons of TNT.)



    Now the density of TNT is about 1500 kg per m3 , so 57.3478 tons is about 80 cubic meters of TNT, which is the equivalent of 80,000 Liters , 21,134 gallons, or 2.7 million fluid ounces of volume. That's 225,000 cans of 12 oz. Coca-Cola or 9,375 f lat-bed cases of 24 cans each.

    Leaving aside other issues, if we are to believe that it was a plane that hit the Pentagon, where did all of this extra energy come from?




    There were two 9 ton engines on each wing, each of which constitute 10% of the total weight (20% together.) But how come there was only one hole at the point of impact? [B]The idea that the wings and two 9-ton engines both folded up neatly into the single hole is absurd. [/B]According to the laws of physics and the historical experience, if the wings would ever sever from the body, the twin engines and wings would have been left exterior to the building. More likely, the wings should have remained intact upon impact, and there should have been two additional holes where the two 9-ton engines impacted the Pentagon. But there was only one small hole.



    The official story of the 767 Boeing passenger plane completely vapoizing inside of the Pentagon defies rational application of the laws of Physics.
    But the government could clear all of this up by just releasing one of the videos they must have of the event. There are hundreds of video and surveillance equipement surrounding the Pentagon, yet the only video that is released is an entrance gate video that had an obstacle blocking the path of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon. What about the cameras on top of the Pentagon, or the two videos the FBI confiscated from a nearby hotel and gas station video camera? Why not release every single video, if these videos would prove once an for all that what hit the Pentagon was a passenger airplane? What kind of national security could be hurt by the releasing of these videos? Certainly the "crazy notions" of the critics would be forever silenced, so why don't they release every single video.



    And the very notion that a plane could be in national air space for nearly 20 minutes without a surface to air missle blowing the plane out of the sky.
    How could such an inexperienced, incompetent pilot drop 3,000 meters and then suddenly strafe the ground at 100 feet for the last half a mile without bouncing on the ground? When Blue Angels do this air trick they cut their engines and turn them on again just before they hit the ground. The Boeing 767 is a much larger and heavier plane than the Blue Angels. How could this plane drop 7,000 feet out of the sky and then suddenly strafe the ground without crashing? The amount of g-force preventing the plane from making a near 90 degree turn is impossible for a plane with that weight to overcome. This is similar to a Large SUV taking a 90 degree turn at speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour, with the exception that the lift of the air is less forgiving than the friction of the road. "

    http://www.ginonapoli.com/Fotos/blog...eVaporized.htm
    --------------

    And, as to a Follow up, on this Guy's Credentials/ History, & Political Stand, here's his Blog:

    http://www.ginonapoli.com/

    What Truly Puzzles me BB,..... Is that You, for many Years, have used Common Sense, Past Knowledge, Logic, Past Experience, & more, in Diagnosing Issues with Commercial Equipment & more, which made You the The Go To Problem Solver. ------ And yet here You are rejecting Verifiable Data, Failing to "Connect the Dots", "Failing to recall the past history of many a Jet Air Liner Crash & the obvious In Sight evidence presented", as you continue to zealously Uphold the The Government's Version of 9-11. That "Government" by the way,... Is that the "Deep State" that has been part of Trump's Mantra, that inspired many to vote for him?

    It's as if,.... You are in one dimension, when it comes to helping Diagnose a HVAC/Refrigeration Issue herein the Forum, but when it comes to 9-11, .... You throw those skills, knowledge, logic, & common sense out the window.

    Why is that?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  13. #104
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    What the phuck?

    The formula for kinetic energy is very simple.

    Why did you go off on a tangent?
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

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