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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Citrus County, Florida
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    PSC or X13 replacement?

    I have done this many times but never for a church. I have a church with a bad X13 out of warranty. I can use a PCS and relay and save them $$$. I can also use an evergreen X13 replacement which will cost them more. The drutter I face is the responsibility of modifying the OEM wiring and design. What are the opinions? The system is a heat pump and I can use two relays; one for cooling and one for heating. Right now I am inclined to use the Evergreen and sleep better.
    Doug

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    27,220
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    1st
    Get a supply house to give or discount the X13

    if not

    I don't have an issue rewiring the cabinet for a PCS

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    5,906
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    PSC or X13 replacement?

    Is the motor or module bad?

    Usually the transistor goes bad in the module. You can buy a new one for $20 and solder it in place


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    40,766
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    The X13 gets 240v all the time and 24v to the tap of the desired speed when the blower is needed. You could do some creative wiring to get it to work. Does MARS or anyone else have a more affordable X13 clone?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    Why not just give the church all your concerns & let them make an informed decision. I always tell my customers that the wiring has to be modified a little & a relay has to be added to do the job cheaper. Then there's also the fact that the PSC motor is not as energy efficient but I doubt it would be noticeable. I have yet to have a customer wanting to go back with an ECM that is not under warranty.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Citrus County, Florida
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    Thread Starter
    Well I had to get them running. I put a PSC in and used two relays; one for heat and one for cooling. I was very diligent in the wiring and dressed all the leads accordingly. The pastor had a hissy fit when I told him a replacement ECM price. Also, the PSC will probably outlast a X13 many times. X13's only save $$$ when the duct systems are done correctly which is rare in this world. Thanks for the suggestions.
    Doug

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Bay Area California
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    26,560
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    From what I understand, excessive static pressure kills the ECM's. So if your ducting is undersized, you did them a service by putting in a PSC.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    27,387
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    I had a situation recently where the ECM motor (Broad Ocean I think?) repeatedly failed to high speed only. Under warranty - but so what? The original post-failure idea was to just leave it failed and tolerate the added air flow and noise. But then it started randomly opening the 3A control fuse.

    ECM was 1/3HP so I installed a 1/3HP PSC. This was a mistake as the "speed taps" are actually HP taps. So if there is no duct static / resistance to flow - low speed is just about the same as high speed in terms of air flow. I should have selected the PSC based on actual amp draw - rather than on match amp draw. So long as there is available HP to drive the blower wheel - the motor just runs at the highest speed. <g>

    But a small SCR speed controller 'fixed' the excess air problem. I couldn't find the minimum required RPM for the PSC motor so when / if it fails I'll install a ball bearing motor. I think the SCR was about $8.00

    Oh; the internal wiring of the air handler now looks Nothing like the wiring diagram. But so what? What are there? Wiring police? What is the "responsibility" that concerns you? Do the wiring properly and it's no different than the original wiring. In fact; it's probably better. <g>

    PHM
    ---------


    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I have done this many times but never for a church. I have a church with a bad X13 out of warranty. I can use a PCS and relay and save them $$$. I can also use an evergreen X13 replacement which will cost them more. The drutter I face is the responsibility of modifying the OEM wiring and design. What are the opinions? The system is a heat pump and I can use two relays; one for cooling and one for heating. Right now I am inclined to use the Evergreen and sleep better.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    19,279
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    I'm definitely no fan of any ECM motor. Biggest lie since the refrigerant scam.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    27,387
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    I think the whole efficiency / saving the environment / reducing operating costs thing is horsepoop. It is just another knee-jerk reaction by America's useless political class. Nothing about it, or especially about it's implementation, serves the consumer or the environment well. Unless the operating costs are reduced by applying basic thermodynamic principles - it's just political noise arranged for in order to buy votes from citizens and garner large campaign contributions from corporate interests.

    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    I'm definitely no fan of any ECM motor. Biggest lie since the refrigerant scam.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    660
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    What are the opinions? .

    Ok, here is mine from MY past experience. DON'T MODIFY, but "REPLACE with OEM or Equal". If you feel bad about it, then you buy the motor and donate it back to the church collection plate, and just charge labor. I can tell you stories of the same, along with single pregnant mothers with kids, that only backfires, and you end up paying with a "lifetime warranty" of Mo-$$, and regret. "Hope not to Strong". PS: Be Compassinent, but dont assume that the Church is broke either.

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