Eagle/CIPer 50

[mechmike2]

Are the HW Eagle controller and the HW CIPer 50 controller the same thing?

Anyone use them?

What do you think?

[yorkisn]

The Cipher 50 looks like the Centraline Eaglehawk NX. We use the Eaglehawk NX here in the UK. Really good with the HW Panel bus IO. And the remote HMI is quite neat if all you want is something for the on site people to use to adjust basic settings time times and temperatures.

[Pascone10]

The Honeywell Eagle was introduced a year or two go and is an AX model. The Honeywell Eagle Hawk or Ciper50 is the N4 version.

[unonut]

Was using the cipher 50’s and truly love em. HW was still in the process of writing docs (awesome of em to release products without documentation). But in my experience they were awesome and some of the integration options out the box you can’t beet. Especially with taking over panel bus. It’s kinda like a jace with onboard I/0 and it has a dedicated usb for local access which rocks also.
So I like em.
And they are same modules. I the centraline docs and it shows a lot of the functions and what they do that weren’t mentioned in Honeywell docs at that time. Don’t know how far they have come on updating their docs yet. I’m gonna go check

Never used the eagle ax.

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[erickzind]

The Cipher 50 looks like the Centraline Eaglehawk NX. We use the Eaglehawk NX here in the UK. Really good with the HW Panel bus IO. And the remote HMI is quite neat if all you want is something for the on site people to use to adjust basic settings time times and temperatures.

[unonut]

The Cipher 50 looks like the Centraline Eaglehawk NX. We use the Eaglehawk NX here in the UK. Really good with the HW Panel bus IO. And the remote HMI is quite neat if all you want is something for the on site people to use to adjust basic settings time times and temperatures.

It rocks with panel bus. The HMI. Wasn’t available here in US last for the Ciper but was available for the Eagle AX. Pretty sure they were working on it. There was some incompatibility issues with some of the jar files and newer versions of N4 also. Wanna say commissioning and programming had to be done in version 4.3 or 4.4 (don’t docs in front of me) and the docs were a little gauge on what to do after this. So if this is still the case you DONT have to discover the points they bacnet and pull them into 4.7. You do have to update the jar files in 4.7 then you can discover it and pull it directly into the supervisor like any other jace. You can read and write but program changes and downloading had to be done with the previous version. I’m gonna get the file here once I get home to see if this is still the case. Anyone with more experience please chime in. Also you UK guys got a leg up here. I was finding all kinds of things in the centraline manuals that worked in N4 that hadn’t been documented yet. There’s some cool stuff these things can do


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[todd.johnston]

Does anyone know if you can program the Ciper 50 (or Ciper 30, etc) with any brand of Niagara N4 workbench (Vykon or Distech, for example), or if programming is locked down to the WEBs version of the N4 workbench?

[Pascone10]

Does anyone know if you can program the Ciper 50 (or Ciper 30, etc) with any brand of Niagara N4 workbench (Vykon or Distech, for example), or if programming is locked down to the WEBs version of the N4 workbench?

Ciper50 is WEBs only

[todd.johnston]

Thanks for the quick response. So there's no ILC version, similar to the Spyder controllers, which allows the controllers to be programmed via N4 workbenches other than WEBs?

[Pascone10]

Thanks for the quick response. So there's no ILC version, similar to the Spyder controllers, which allows the controllers to be programmed via N4 workbenches other than WEBs?

Correct, there is no ILC version. This is my understanding and I verified for you by looking at some Honeywell documentation. It states Webs Only.

[orion242]

It rocks with panel bus. The HMI. Wasn’t available here in US last for the Ciper but was available for the Eagle AX. Pretty sure they were working on it. There was some incompatibility issues with some of the jar files and newer versions of N4 also. Wanna say commissioning and programming had to be done in version 4.3 or 4.4 (don’t docs in front of me) and the docs were a little gauge on what to do after this. So if this is still the case you DONT have to discover the points they bacnet and pull them into 4.7. You do have to update the jar files in 4.7 then you can discover it and pull it directly into the supervisor like any other jace. You can read and write but program changes and downloading had to be done with the previous version. I’m gonna get the file here once I get home to see if this is still the case. Anyone with more experience please chime in. Also you UK guys got a leg up here. I was finding all kinds of things in the centraline manuals that worked in N4 that hadn’t been documented yet. There’s some cool stuff these things can do

So the crazy compatibility matrix lives on?

[todd.johnston]

At the same time I had posted my questions on the Ciper 50 here, I had also written to Honeywell support. Here's their response to the open license:

"They are open now. Since they run standard Niagara N4, there is no restrictions like we have with Spyder.
So, a Distech Niagara Supervisor could connect to a CIPer Model 30 (or 50 or 10 for that matter).

They don't have separate non-ILC/closed and with-ILC/open version of the CIPer 30. They are all open.

The Model 30 is exactly like the Model 50 in the case that if the customer has the jar files they can engineer any of the logic in the controller. The license (NICS) is wide open (4 *'s) so that means that the CIPer 30 can share data directly with any other OEM's Niagara controller and be engineered by any OEM's Niagara Workbench (assuming that the other OEM doesn't lock it down on their end.) The only limitation is that they can't copy that Model 30 logic into a different brand controller or their PC and run it there."

[orion242]

if the customer has the jar files they can engineer any of the logic in the controller.

So where does the random customer / contractor get those jar files? HW have a public download link?

The only limitation is that they can't copy that Model 30 logic into a different brand controller or their PC and run it there."

Little different than spudder then. Its using custom blocks that only work within that controller, which is somewhat expected.

So do all the cipers have the quick boot feature that the vykon edge10 has then?

[bigguy158]

So where does the random customer / contractor get those jar files? HW have a public download link?



Little different than spudder then. Its using custom blocks that only work within that controller, which is somewhat expected.

So do all the cipers have the quick boot feature that the vykon edge10 has then?

There are a few different jar files. I think the ITC jar is the important one. I’m getting a CIPer 30 this week. I’ll let you know.

You can program with ITC or with kitcontrol. There is a different folder for each.

It looks like only the edge 10 has ACE quick boot. One of my friends said a 30 booted up in about 2-3 minutes.


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[Reefer636]

There are a few different jar files. I think the ITC jar is the important one. I’m getting a CIPer 30 this week. I’ll let you know.

You can program with ITC or with kitcontrol. There is a different folder for each.

It looks like only the edge 10 has ACE quick boot. One of my friends said a 30 booted up in about 2-3 minutes.


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did you use the ITC to program i just picked up a ciper 50 and am trying to figure it out as we speak. were did you get jars for ITC

[bigguy158]

ITC jars are from honeywell. I do not know if it’s need for the 50. Contact your support channel for the proper jar files. We’ve only been using the 30s.

With the 30s you have to have the ITC jars to manage the hardware points. After that we just use kit control to program.


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[lwarren]

ITC jars are from honeywell. I do not know if it’s need for the 50. Contact your support channel for the proper jar files. We’ve only been using the 30s.

With the 30s you have to have the ITC jars to manage the hardware points. After that we just use kit control to program.


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I am not sure what the ITC jars are. maybe you are referring to the CL Jars (Centraline Macro Library) which is basically the old Honeywell CARE blocks.

[lwarren]

did you use the ITC to program i just picked up a ciper 50 and am trying to figure it out as we speak. were did you get jars for ITC

I think he is referring to the CL Macro blocks which should be in your Honeywell Workbench. You need a pretty good understanding of these blocks to use them effectively but the help files are pretty good. Depending on what you are doing you may find it easier to just utilize the KitControl blocks for your logic. I have only worked with the Cipher 50, maybe the ITC jars are for Cipher 30's if it is not the same as the CL macros.

[bigguy158]

https://buildingcontrols.honeywell.c...e_31-00237.pdf

IPC network look on page 77


Adding On-Board or Expansion I/O Points to Database
After adding expansion I/O devices to the LocalDevice folder, it is necessary that you add the on-board and expansion I/O points to the database, so that the discovered points become the Niagara-compatible physical points. You cannot directly use the physical points onto the wire sheet until you add the points to the database.
You can configure Universal Input/Output (UI/O) point as input or output point as per requirement. Once the point is added to the database, you cannot change its type. Delete and add the same point again with the required configuration.
To add expansion I/O points to database:
1. Discover the IPC I/O points.
2. Double-click the required point. The application displays a window to add the device to the database as shown in the following figure.
Or
Drag the required device and drop it into the Database tab.


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[y7turbo]

IPC tool is for the CIPer 30 only, I don't believe it works in the 50.