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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
    Posts
    3,441
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    NEBB does have a standard form for each application. I now have my own forms on the computer. I only had one set of instruments calibrated. I compared the other instruments to the calibrated ones. It takes some time but is well worth doing. My standard reference was the inclined manometer even though I had the other equipment calibrated.
    Very few contractors care about anything but the report because the report gets their retainage released.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    1,247
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    I have not had to much trouble from CAs on mechanical jobs my company has performed. What is kind of funny is the CA always has less knowledge than the control guy, tab guy, and construction superintendent. But the CA is making sure they did it right.

    I’ve heard there is a ca that works around here for the local schools that made ridiculous demands to change stuff after installation that had some minor flaw. Guys started putting clarifications in their public open bids to add 100k if this ca was involved.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
    Posts
    3,441
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    I started to get certified in commissioning but after looking into it decided it was more paper work than substance. For that reason I never got certified. My opinion of it guys. The original intent attracted me because the original intent was to start when the design team started and work closely with them. By doing that a lot of problems can be avoided but every request I got was to do the work after the install was completed.
    On one job where I was awarded the TAB work I called the CA and told him he needed to check the heat calculations on one of the RTU'S because as designed they would deliver 46 F air with an ambient of 0 F. He said they value engineered the job and there was no problem. You can guess what the email I got said when the ambient got to 0 F.
    Sorry guys but I think CA is more feel good fluff than anything else. If you watch a lot of them sit down at the control computer and accept what ever it tells them. In my book that isn't the way it should be done.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    9,367
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    Commissioning seems to be to out of a basic mistrust that the job was done right. I understand that. It's the last opportunity to see if things work as planned.
    I A building in town came to mind. The county court house hadn't worked mechanically since built. A friend worked there and problems were reported from the beginning but no one could be pinned down to fix it.

    I believe that many jobs might not be done right. We've all seen it in construction. I wouldn't buy a house w/o a home inspector. Not saying the guy knows his stuff or that there isn't a need to qualify the specialty. I remember not too long ago CA's were rare.
    I could conclude it was out of necessity. Sometimes some might do a job half a$$ed because they know no one will find out.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    2,144
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    I do a LOT of CX. That is why my handle is CXagent.

    Do I know as much at the TAB, GC or Controls guys? On each job I probably do not know as much as the ones who installed and lived with making it work. But what I don't know I usually find out.

    Oh, before I go very far - most of the problems I find are in the design. There are some construction/installation problems but most problems are in the design.

    I never have time/budget to check everything. So I check the common problems and look for indications of problems. Zones where both the heating and cooling are on all the time. Exhaust fans that never shut off. Buildings that are depressurized - by design. Sensors that are way out of calibration or not working at all. AC's that will never get cold enough for the air to be dehumidified. Roof leaks. Plumbing cleanout missing or turned where they are unusable. I see those problems over and over and over.

    And I get fooled by some problems. Like a supply vent that blows across a sloped roof and turned straight down onto the t/stat - by design. A RTU that will lock out every eighth time the reheat function turns on.

    But the ones that keep me busiest are the ones that should never happen. Like ducts that were never installed (but TAB report shows proper flow). Or ducts that "fell off" the diffuser or start collar after TAB. Or RTU that never had power on them. Or split systems that have never had the refrigerant lines connected. Yes - I see those all the time too. And the TAB report shows them to be working when tested.

    I have had many 'discussions' with design engineers, architects and contractors that I was not needed on a job. I just say "show the owner I'm not needed and put me out of business - please." Just like anytype of job, CX is only as good as the people doing it. That is true with TAB, mechanical contractors, control contractors, etc. I have worked with really good and really bad of each of those. CX is only as good as the people doing it.

    What tells me I am doing a good job is the number of GC that hire me directly. They don't ask the Owner to hire me. The GC hires me directly.
    If "I have always done it this way" is a good reason to do it again, how many times do I have to do something wrong - before it becomes right?

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