Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    5
    Post Likes

    Lennox vs. Trane vs. Rheem Advice?

    Hello -

    I'm located in Southeastern Pennsylvania. 2000 sq ft. townhome with all electric American Standard heat pump system that was installed in 2003. I haven't had any major issues with the system and it is currently working fine, but I wanted to be preemptive and replace the system and got a few quotes from a few different vendors offering different brands and wanted to get some thoughts...

    Rheem - Highest Quote
    Rheem Classic Series Heat Pump, Single Speed 2.5 Ton Capacity - 14 SEER
    Rheem 10 KW Electric Heating Element - Backup Heat
    Rheem High- Efficiency Blower
    1" Filter

    Trane - Middle Quote (This installer did my current American Standard system in 2003)
    Trane XR14 Heat Pump 30,000 BTU - 14 SEER
    Trane 15KW Electric Heat Package
    Trane Hyperion Air Handler
    Aprilaire 2410/2310 Media Air Cleaner

    Lennox - Cheapest Quote
    Lennox ML14XP1 Heat Pump 2.5 Ton - 15.5 SEER
    Lennox CBA-25V Air Handler
    Surge Protector
    Honeywell Humidifier
    5"Filter

    I was leaning towards the Lennox due to price and was surprised by the price difference (over 15% cheaper than Trane). Also, is it common to re-use the refrigeration lines? Do I need a humidifier? Lennox dealer said that they recommend a humidifier with a heat pump system. I currently have a Aprilaire one, but have never used it. They all said they would re-use. Please let me know your thoughts on which system I should go with or if there are any other recommendations! I do have one other Lennox dealer and a Carrier dealer coming to give quotes next week as well.

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,593
    Post Likes
    All three are junk if not installed properly.

    Whenever I hear cheapest quote, makes me wonder what they are not doing or not qualified to do so they are cheaper.

    Concentrate on the best contractor not the equipment. You are not buying a car that was made in a factory, you are buying a system that is designed and installed by the contractor. Compare it if you were buying that new car but each dealer had to source the components and build the car at the dealership. Then the dealership would matter more than the car brand.

    If ya looking for the cheapest, keep looking you will always find someone cheaper. But you will most likely get what ya pay for.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,593
    Post Likes
    Also as bazooka will be along shortly, make sure each contractor provides the AHRI certification number to prove the Seer rating. If they donít know what a cerification number from AHRI is you can cross them off your list, they are idiots.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Dover, DE
    Posts
    11,770
    Post Likes
    Do your research on the contractor, not the brand.
    Any brand will be junk if not installed correctly. And it’s really easy to screw up an install. Many are wrong.
    ďI havenít failed. Iíve just found 10,000 ways that wonít work.Ē - Thomas Edison

    ďItís not whether you get knocked down, itís whether you get up.Ē - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    5
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Thank you! All three companies have great reviews online. Obviously not all perfect reviews, but relatively good. Rheem and Trane dealers are small local-ish companies vs Lennox dealer, which is a regional company.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Dover, DE
    Posts
    11,770
    Post Likes
    Did any do a load calculation to determine correct system sizing, or are they just quoting what size is there now?
    Do any offer system commissioning once the installation is done? As in check and log amp draws, static pressures, CFM, refrigerant temperature and pressures?
    Reviews are easily bought. I don’t put much faith in them.
    ďI havenít failed. Iíve just found 10,000 ways that wonít work.Ē - Thomas Edison

    ďItís not whether you get knocked down, itís whether you get up.Ē - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    5
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Nobody did a load calculation... All based off of the size of the current unit. I donít think any offered this commissioning report... Iím sure I can ask for this though?

    The Trane dealer provided the AHRI SEER rating with the estimate, none of the others did.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Dover, DE
    Posts
    11,770
    Post Likes
    Might want to keep looking for a more detail oriented company then.
    Commissioning is usually completely overlooked. But these are not plug and play appliances.
    In fact, most problems that occur can be directly linked to an install error. That would have been caught during commissioning.
    ďI havenít failed. Iíve just found 10,000 ways that wonít work.Ē - Thomas Edison

    ďItís not whether you get knocked down, itís whether you get up.Ē - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Dover, DE
    Posts
    11,770
    Post Likes
    Here’s an example of a commissioning report. Ask the installers if they complete such a report-honestly-once install is done.

    https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment...1&d=1489971253
    ďI havenít failed. Iíve just found 10,000 ways that wonít work.Ē - Thomas Edison

    ďItís not whether you get knocked down, itís whether you get up.Ē - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,427
    Post Likes
    Thankx .... Advanced Response....for the drum roll. Like everyone else here Iím only doing my small part to give homeowners some perspective.

    If you provide the complete model numbers of the ID and OD unit we can verify that you are getting the 15.5 SEER rated system ( those numbers are on paper, not real world ) the Lennox Contractor is proposing.

    Iím only guessing at this but Iím thinking the Lennox Contractor is offering a matched AHRI system as its odd for Contractors to add the .5 SEER designation IMO. Usually itís written as 14 or 16 SEER as examples. Unless the Contract says ďup to 15.5 SEERĒ they are offering.

    If itís a matched set and gives you 15+ SEER and a certain minimum HSPF number possibly that system may qualify for any rebates your state or local utility company may offer.

    Register your system of choose as if system never gets registered the manufacturer warranty is significantly reduced.

    The thing with a Heat Pump is if itís installed in the summer many times itís to hot outside to really check defrost operation and heating operations. Also checking to make sure your electric heat is coming on during defrost. You can have them check emergency heat mode to make sure the OD unit gets locked out and your drawing the full 10 KW or 15KW or whatever size heaters you end up with.

    If thatís the case you would have to make sure to call them back during the cooler season to check your system in heat and defrost mode as it can easily fall through the cracks of not getting checked.

    Iím not 100% sure but I believe all the brands mentioned have a demand defrost type system vs time/temperature, which in theory should initiate a defrost less frequently than the time/temperature type.

    Without doing more homework, I personally do not know ( at face value ) what the tier level of each model is compared to the other models. One model may give more standard factory features than the other models. The bigger name brands typically have couple/three tier levels ( good, better, best ) even on lower SEER units.

    I believe all the brand models you mentioned have the standard 10/10 compressor and parts warranty once registered.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 08-31-2019 at 11:13 PM.

  11. Likes Mr Bill liked this post.
  12. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    5
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Thank you everyone. How would you recommend that I find a reputable installer? Any thoughts on the actual units that I've listed here?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,593
    Post Likes
    I donít deal in any of the brands listed, but I have seen all three brands last a long time and all three did an early death.

    The difference have always been the way they were picked(load calc) , designed, installed, and commissioned. I will state most that lasted a long time most customers state they were not cheap, meaning they most likely were not the cheapest bid and were possibly the highest bid.

    Contractors that go above and beyond on the consultation and the necessary calcs, will most likely be the contractor that will stand behind what they do and will make it right if there is an issue.

    The cheaper contractors or the corporation companies are normally just working on volume not quality. Slam bam thank you man.

    Talk to friends and relatives, neighbors to get recommendations.

    Online reviews, the bbb, and lead generation companies, reviews are bought and paid for. Smaller companies you have a higher chance that reviews are legitimate, as they donít have dozens of employees and paid consultations companies that can bury bad reviews with paid reviews.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Citrus County, Florida
    Posts
    2,992
    Post Likes
    The Trane Hyperion unit is plastic composition sandwiched metal air handler. It does not sweat in most installations. If your installation is in a hot area, this is something to think about. Also, check the contractor you choose. If your system goes down on a Friday afternoon, will they service it on the weekend or make you wait until Monday? There is more than equipment.
    Doug

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •