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  1. #27
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    Hmm, tax cuts and jobs are bribes but free medical care, free tuition, money cause your ancestors were black or Indian, money just cause you don't feel like working aren't???

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Just a couple things:
    Regulations happen usually after something bad happens.
    Capitalists really can't be trusted because money will corrupt them eventually.

    Sears had some of the best sales out there. I've bought many things there. I will miss them. Sears sent a sales flyer every week often 50% off. Probably their decision to locate in malls at a time when malls
    are closing was a mistake but hard to foresee.

    Taxes don't drive corps out of business because they don't pay them, we do. It's all part of overhead and all businesses have this over burden that is reflected in the price of purchasing. And all businesses share a similar burden.

    Higher taxes translate into higher product costs...
    And if the products can be made outside the USA, imported, and sold for less than the regulations and taxes force the price to be...
    Then the corps loose sales... which means lost jobs and lost taxes.
    It is simple economics...


    Don't you wish the Gov had meddled in the banking disaster before it happened. The evidence suggests the great recession could have been avoided or lessened if some action had been involved in the banks running wild. What you call meddling I would call protections.
    The mortgage crisis to me is proof the banks need controls. Someone should have said STOP!

    Bill Clinton passed the laws that ultimately caused the mortgage crises of 2008 and the recession of 2009...
    We have debated that many times in ARP... the facts are clear as sunshine... and are on record in old threads.


    We know that if a lease on public is granted, the corp pays royalties on what they take from the land.
    Don't you agree that a corporation that uses labor should pay for it's value in taxes the same as oil, gold, or any raw material? To give corporations a free ride while making citizens carry the tax load is not right.
    The poor middle class is getting poorer.
    Take the money and run is the capitalist mantra.
    Without competitive pricing... consumers will not buy USA made products...
    Rather buy foreign products.
    And all the BS lefties come up with... does not matter if the consumer does not buy USA made products.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special-K View Post
    Actually, tax revenues rose after the tax cut. Look it up.

    They almost always do. Tax cuts spur economic growth. Growth creates jobs, people working these new jobs make money and pay taxes. And they spend money, which creates even more jobs. Yada yada
    No, net government revenue dropped. I posted an article previously about and will dig it up. I still say the business portion of the tax cut was wise however. The government shouldn’t be trying to maximize income.

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Short term? Why are so many economic experts saying caution? Warning of a recession? I'm no economist so I have to depend on those that are.
    And I know many don't see with 20/20 but it's started in Europe from what I read. These things are co-mingled and spread.
    There always seems to be a correction at some point, but I suspect that politics is trying to artificially drive a recession. A downturn would be the best thing that could happen for the Trump haters.

  5. #31
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    [QUOTE=hvacker;25772175]Just a couple things:
    Regulations happen usually after something bad happens.
    Yep, and then government tends to overreact and often do more harm that good

    Capitalists really can't be trusted because money will corrupt them eventually.
    Yes, but that's where market competition comes in to fix things. Another company will be better/cheaper and customers will move to that company. The corrupt one is forced to either straighten up or fail.

    Sears had some of the best sales out there. I've bought many things there. I will miss them. Sears sent a sales flyer every week often 50% off. Probably their decision to locate in malls at a time when malls
    are closing was a mistake but hard to foresee.
    A perfect example of how market competition works it's magic. Sears got dumb fat and happy, and now they are sinking

    Taxes don't drive corps out of business because they don't pay them, we do. It's all part of overhead and all businesses have this over burden that is reflected in the price of purchasing. And all businesses share a similar burden.
    Company A manufactures it's widgets in the united states. Due to high taxes, regulation, liability, etc etc; they must price their widgets at $10 each.

    Company B decides to outsource their widget manufacturing to East Bumble. Because East Bumble has low or no taxes, little regulation, and to be fair, low wages; Company B can sell their widgets here for $7 each.

    Which company sells the most widgets here, A or B?

    Don't you wish the Gov had meddled in the banking disaster before it happened. The evidence suggests the great recession could have been avoided or lessened if some action had been involved in the banks running wild. What you call meddling I would call protections.
    The mortgage crisis to me is proof the banks need controls. Someone should have said STOP!
    The government did meddle, that's what caused it in the first place. And the Bush 1.0 administration did say enough; they had McCain testify before congress twice that it was coming, but the senate banking committee did nothing. Look up who was in charge of the Senate banking committee at the time. Barney frank and Chris Dodd

    We know that if a lease on public is granted, the corp pays royalties on what they take from the land.
    Don't you agree that a corporation that uses labor should pay for it's value in taxes the same as oil, gold, or any raw material? To give corporations a free ride while making citizens carry the tax load is not right.
    The poor middle class is getting poorer.
    Take the money and run is the capitalist mantra.
    As I said, tax subsidies are overused. But sometimes, they do make sense. If we can convince a major manufacturing company to come here from another country by giving them a tax break for awhile, this is what happens:

    1) Because they were not here before, we lost nothing because we didn't have it to start with
    2) The company hires potentially thousands of people to fill newly created jobs. These people are working and making money, so they pay taxes on their income.
    3) Some of the new income goes back into the local economy. They buy groceries, homes, furniture, new cars, etc. The local economy grows, and adds more jobs still
    4) The new jobs created by the growth in the local economy hire people to fill them, and these people are making money.
    5) The incomes from the new jobs in the local economy is taxed, and they are also paying into the federal government.
    6) Rinse, repeat. Trickle down is real, as is trickle up.

    So now, we have lots of new tax revenue that we didn't have before. Downside? None.

  6. #32
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    Special K, where did your information about the tax cut resulting in revenue increases?
    Reason I wondered is I had not seen that. My wife is a degrees accountant with a cert. in taxes.
    I did ask her and the tax benefits worked for poorer people and those with lots of kids. Small businesses also did better. The majority lost.

    I still believe it was a bad idea when the Nat. debt is so crazy.

    About high prices, some nations don't worry as much. Made in Germany is a selling factor in many things. So is Made in USA. China pays a premium because they trusy US made stuff. I don't know if it only applies to baby formula and Buick's. Asian countries seem more willing to buy quality. Americans seem to often pick the bargain.
    GTOGO.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  7. #33
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    I can tell you this when I was taking the far Eastern tour (Korea then Nam) Germany was number one in medicine followed by the US in Korea and Japan. Thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Sen. Barry Goldwater

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Special K, where did your information about the tax cut resulting in revenue increases?
    Reason I wondered is I had not seen that. My wife is a degrees accountant with a cert. in taxes.
    I did ask her and the tax benefits worked for poorer people and those with lots of kids. Small businesses also did better. The majority lost.

    I still believe it was a bad idea when the Nat. debt is so crazy.

    About high prices, some nations don't worry as much. Made in Germany is a selling factor in many things. So is Made in USA. China pays a premium because they trusy US made stuff. I don't know if it only applies to baby formula and Buick's. Asian countries seem more willing to buy quality. Americans seem to often pick the bargain.
    GTOGO.
    I remembered them announcing it, and I looked it up to be sure. It's out there if you want to google it.

    Just remember, it's not a zero sum game.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special-K View Post
    I remembered them announcing it, and I looked it up to be sure. It's out there if you want to google it.

    Just remember, it's not a zero sum game.

    As for widgets, A company needs to define both it's product and it's customers. Widgets might not be where their market is for them. Often the case when a company chooses to compete where they will loose.
    A problem with rich politicians is they will probably favor their own wallets before considering mine. Not all of them I know, but a bunch.
    The tax cut wasn't good for all but that didn't prevent Mr. T from saying it did. All this stuff is hard to sort. The world might need a completely different economic system. Or just have another war. Wars seem to put things back to zero again aside from the expense.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    As for widgets, A company needs to define both it's product and it's customers. Widgets might not be where their market is for them. Often the case when a company chooses to compete where they will loose.
    A problem with rich politicians is they will probably favor their own wallets before considering mine. Not all of them I know, but a bunch.
    The tax cut wasn't good for all but that didn't prevent Mr. T from saying it did. All this stuff is hard to sort. The world might need a completely different economic system. Or just have another war. Wars seem to put things back to zero again aside from the expense.
    The tax cut was good for everyone who paid taxes.

    What's wrong with that?

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    That's a really stupid thing to say. Are you all about sucking up to the ARP buds?
    I'm important enough to have a vote. Same as his family.

    Not many things discuss me but some people do.
    He was cracking a joke about your use of the word "discuss," which means "talk about."
    He knew you meant "disgust."

    He probably figured your cell phone misspelled it.

    But now that it's happened twice, maybe it wasn't the cell phone.
    Vacuum Technology:
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    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special-K View Post
    The tax cut was good for everyone who paid taxes.

    What's wrong with that?
    Here's something from Bloomberg.com that tells a different story. Flim flam and swamp gas me thinks.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...-consequences/
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    He was cracking a joke about your use of the word "discuss," which means "talk about."
    He knew you meant "disgust."

    He probably figured your cell phone misspelled it.

    But now that it's happened twice, maybe it wasn't the cell phone.


    Spelling was never a strong point with me. BUT Mrs.Rachet, my English teacher, was supposed to be dead not re-incarnated.
    But now that she's back I'll try much harder.<g>
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

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