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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Cuz there are still a lot of old timers in the field who are scared of change.
    You know Brian, I hear that a lot, but I don't agree with you. I think this might be a bias because of your age, I'm 68, and I have every new technology tool I need to perform my job as a service tech 100% correctly. I see young techs in the supply house everyday asking, how much is those digital gauges, just the other day, I heard one asking the counter guy, are vacuum pumps pretty expensive. Or here's one, I really need to ge me a MFD/Cap checker, I've been just sticking in a new cap just to see if that's the problem. Brian, all of us "old school" techs are not as lost as you might want to believe, remember we got it done somehow, because we didn't have all this new technology available when we were young.

    I remember doing loads calculations on a paper from our electric company, we didn't have the computers and programs of today, does that still make us "old school" techs, bad techs? Yes! we somehow got it done, and systems lasted a lot longer back in the day, than they do now, even with all this new technology. Brian you might be surprised how much you can accomplish using your brain to think with. ANYONE can hook up a set of digitals and charge a system to correct SC and SH, I would love to stick a set of old conventials, and a old strap on pipe thermometer, in a "young techs" bag and tell them to go charge this system to the correct SH and SC, they probably would have the deer in the headlights looks, or hand them the paper from the electric company and say, go do a load on this home. You kind of see where I'm going here? young or old, it doesn't matter, there are all different ages of clueless techs out there.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards" ~ Vernon Law

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  3. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlstan View Post
    So I get the reason for using a crt and the removal of the core but my confusion is with all the controversy over everyone saying you shouldn’t use a manifold to pull a vacuum. Why are manufacturers incorporating a micron gauge into their manifold along with the 4th port if it’s not a wise practice. Like on the new Sman-480v
    Because they know thats how its been done for decades, and what most techs are familiar and comfortable with.

    There is nothing wrong with doing it that way, it works, it just takes longer. On a brand new install of a resi split, its likely fast enough. But for service it will take much longer, but also still works.

    I can say 100 percent, that in commercial, its a HUGE time saver to not pull through the manifold, but its still not wrong.

    I myself did it that way up until just a few years ago. And I even only used 2 valve 1/4” hose only manifolds. It worked fine, just took forever sometimes. And many times, just never pulled as low as I really wanted to.

    I never had an integrated micron gauge, so I cant speak to the quality of them, but assuming they are accurate, they will get the job done.

    Also price is a factor for many, so one single expense to have multiple functions is a selling feature also.

    So- do what you can afford. But, personally I think it would be best to at the very least get a model of micron gauge that is not internal, so that way you have the flexibility of upgrading in the future to larger hoses.


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  5. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlstan View Post
    I totally understand the reducing the leak point thing and having as few connections as possible. I just find it odd that manufacturers still are pushing evacuation systems using the manifold if it were a huge problem regarding leaks. Like the 4 valve manifolds and the Appion Mega flow kit.
    You say manufacturers but it's really just one of them with a micron gauge sensor built into the manifold. The rest have the sensor as a external attachment and only display on the manifold display as it should be technically. There is no reason to have the sensor built into the manifold besides giving guys who don't know any better what they want. With one that is built in doesn't need to be set up properly and you won't loose the attachment. It's a cleaner look and appears to be a better tool.

  6. #17
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    20 year old analog manifold with some beat up ¼" hoses and when you hear the pump noise change your done.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    You know Brian, I hear that a lot, but I don't agree with you. I think this might be a bias because of your age, I'm 68, and I have every new technology tool I need to perform my job as a service tech 100% correctly. I see young techs in the supply house everyday asking, how much is those digital gauges, just the other day, I heard one asking the counter guy, are vacuum pumps pretty expensive. Or here's one, I really need to ge me a MFD/Cap checker, I've been just sticking in a new cap just to see if that's the problem. Brian, all of us "old school" techs are not as lost as you might want to believe, remember we got it done somehow, because we didn't have all this new technology available when we were young.

    I remember doing loads calculations on a paper from our electric company, we didn't have the computers and programs of today, does that still make us "old school" techs, bad techs? Yes! we somehow got it done, and systems lasted a lot longer back in the day, than they do now, even with all this new technology. Brian you might be surprised how much you can accomplish using your brain to think with. ANYONE can hook up a set of digitals and charge a system to correct SC and SH, I would love to stick a set of old conventials, and a old strap on pipe thermometer, in a "young techs" bag and tell them to go charge this system to the correct SH and SC, they probably would have the deer in the headlights looks, or hand them the paper from the electric company and say, go do a load on this home. You kind of see where I'm going here? young or old, it doesn't matter, there are all different ages of clueless techs out there.
    I didn't say all, Bill. And I'm getting up there also and am the guy with the latest and greatest tools for the job.

    The post above me said you know it's done evacuating when you hear the pump pitch change. We've got a guy like that. I had to give him my old micron gauge a couple years ago becuase he refused to buy one.

    You know those guys are out there.

    I actually gave a class on evacuatng systems a few years ago. I wanted to focus on the younger guys who needed a better grip on the evacuation process, but also knew I needed to get through to the more seasoned techs who still used manifolds. So one of the things I touched on was using a good hose/CRT set up and not using a manifold. I gave a pretty good speech about it. I gave a demonstration while I was chatting pulling a reclaim tank though a set of Megaflow kits then again through a 4 valve manifold. Of course the time difference was pretty dramatic. I even put the icing on the cake and explained to all of them two sets of Megaflows cost less than a good 4 valve manifold set. And that the way we used to do it in the past was get a nice 4 valve set and use it for evacuation only so they wouldn't get beat up and had less of a chance if leaking.

    So why waste an extra $100 on a set of Brute 2's when you have a far superior evacuation set up instead?

    Well not 6 months after that, one of our old timers(he just retired) bought a new $300 YJ Brute 2's. I asked him why he got them. I knew he had a few sets of analogs. He said for evacuating. He was having issues with his old 4 valve set and wanted some new and tight. I asked why he didn't get a set of big hoses and CRTs. He said he's been doing it this way for 30 years and he's not changing now.

    Anyway I didn't mean to offend and certainly wasn't talking about every seasoned tech. Me being one of them. But you know there are plenty of those guys out there.

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  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlstan View Post
    I totally understand the reducing the leak point thing and having as few connections as possible. I just find it odd that manufacturers still are pushing evacuation systems using the manifold if it were a huge problem regarding leaks. Like the 4 valve manifolds and the Appion Mega flow kit.
    if you made manifolds, would you claim that they leak and/or aren't any good for evacuating?
    "Right" is not the same as "Wise".

    Don't step on my favorite part of the Constitution just to point out your favorite part.

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  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    if you made manifolds, would you claim that they leak and/or aren't any good for evacuating?
    Back when I made manifolds I used to say that all the time.

    I don't say it anymore because I went out of business, but....

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

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  14. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    Back when I made manifolds I used to say that all the time.

    I don't say it anymore because I went out of business, but....

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    sure wish i could get my money back out of those crap-ass manifolds i bought from you. #245-03p i believe.
    "Right" is not the same as "Wise".

    Don't step on my favorite part of the Constitution just to point out your favorite part.

  15. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    sure wish i could get my money back out of those crap-ass manifolds i bought from you. #245-03p i believe.
    Fieldpiece will probably just swap those straight across for one of theirs. I hear they have great customer service.

    Pretty sure they are the ones that ran Shellkamp out of business.

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  16. #23
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    I know this has been said so many times, but all I always hear is. why go threw all the trouble knowing you going to be back any how. Im like dude. have you lost you mind. why would you like to come work on this more than one time and look like a fool. the answer is doesn't bother me. well I too was told to just pump it for 15 min and wait for the pump to change sound. now maybe in the beginning when I started I did that. but after seeing change I do change! insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting change. well im into new things. I own all digital gauges, i use a appion mega flow kit and also a appion 8cfm pump. it used to take hrs to do a simple vac down with 1/4 hoses and a manifold. I do pump downs in less then 7 minutes now with my 1/2 hoses. I pull down to like 125hg in like 5 min. its insane to see how fast it is. so many videos proving the setup is sound. its the techs who really don't care that won't change. or want to learn something new

  17. #24
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    Well, in theory, if the vacuum gauge is not within the manifold, and is a seperate sensor, ie. Testo and YJ, then you could hook up to CRT's with the vacuum gauge and hoses. When you test the system, simply valve off the CRTs and watch the vacuum. Then when ready, open the CRTs and go for it. It doesn't matter whether the vacuum is read by a stand-alone gauge such as the BluVac, or a seperate sensor on a manifold, as long as the manifold is valved out of the system during standing vacuum test, then you're good to go.
    The only time it becomes a problem is speed, using a manifold, just increases the area to vacuum, and a lot of techs don't use larger hoses, so it takes longer to vac a system. I'd rather use a seperate vacuum kit and not a manifold.
    Manufacturers make what they think will sell, and if it's another feature that adds value and technically not wrong, then they'll add it.

  18. #25
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    As many others have said you can pull a vac through a manifold but it is more time consuming and their is a greater chance for leaks. Using a manifold you have the restriction of the core depressors and the 1/4” hoses. When pulling a vac through a manifold I have had hose gaskets leak, hose crimps leak, valves on the manifold leak, gauges leak, and fittings on the manifold leak. Also the standard RYB hoses can permeate. When I pull a vacuum I use Appion Megaflow hoses 3/8” on one and 1/4” on the other hooked directly to the pump and CRTs. I pulled and 15 ton circuit down to 194 microns today in less than an hour. I isolated the pump and after 30 minutes the system rose to 253 microns.

  19. #26
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    My question is: Why would you even want a manifold? On 80% of my installs (commercial refrigeration and A/C) I use the Appion valve core removal tools, large hoses, and a pump. When I’m down to a good vacuum, I let the charge fly and disconnect. Done.

    Oh sure, maybe I’ll put a manifold on and check pressures, S.C., S.H., but during evac, why would I want a manifold?
    If God didn't want us to eat animals... He wouldn't have made them out of MEAT.

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