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Thread: Opioid Stats

  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    I find it interesting that some of our conservative members think that morality does not come into play when deciding what is codified into law. Is this a new development since the "moral majority" held considerable sway in the conservative movement? If so, what has caused this change in philosophy?
    You spin and contort reality due to your blind obsession to show those mean conservatives are wrong.

    When did I say that mortality doesn't work its way into our laws and judicial system. What I bright up is separate from that.

    Yet you change what I said and the intended message of what I posted.

    They are two separate topics. You do realize you can have two different topics that contain the same subject, right Einstein?

    Morality in social circles/communities/media ed-op/school class rooms/lunch rooms/water cooler chat/diner table chat/out to diner with friends chat/postings in chat rooms/etc is what I was saying and what Adams was saying.

    You knew that but couldn't help yourself or you are a very shallow thinker. Or possibly you conservative obsession blinders got in the way again.

    Does it ever make you pause and think when your beliefs/mindset are consistently and laughably shown to be baseless and unsound? Time to take a knee and actually listen. You may become a better person.

  2. #41
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    IMO...

    What salty is spinning this time...

    Is my statement that one cannot legislate morality, it must be a choice of the people.

    Funny what lengths a lefty (troll?) will go to... to play their spin game???
    And to avoid traditional and common sense principles that WORK!
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  3. #42
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    Of course morality can be legislated. I'm not sure what's missing here.
    We start creating laws based on something. Often the dominate religion.
    That's a basis. Knowing not all citizens are religious, civilian rules of engagement are necessary or maybe all of one side would knock off the other side.
    Many laws have morel content as their foundation.
    The 10 commandments are an outline for moral behavior but also as a means of controlling behavior for those that aren't so moral. Would you consider the 10 commandments moral laws because many of them are legislated.? Kill, steal, lie (except in civil matters you can lie, like divorce.)

    There are other laws that didn't always have the will of the people but were passed anyway. The Civil Rights Amendment for example was considered a moral law. There was a large part of the country that wanted nothing to do with this amendment but they were forced fed.
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  5. #43
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    I am not trying to cast shade on your beliefs here but it seems that you guys are trying to put too fine a point on morality for individuals vs corporations. Our laws should be a reflection of who we are as a people and should also be equitable across the board.

    Let me try to bring this back to the opioid issue. On one side we have corporations making millions of dollars of profit from distributing millions of kilos of opiates knowing full well the dangers of doing so, but, by pointing fingers none of the people that were actually involved and received those ill gotten profits will sit in the pen for even a millisecond. Whereas the individual arrested for one gram of an opiate gets one year and a felony on his record for life. This is where your form of judicious morality has gotten us.
    Last edited by netsalt; 08-08-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    I am not trying to cast shade on your beliefs here but it seems that you guys are trying to put too fine a point on morality for individuals vs corporations. Our laws should be a reflection of who we are as a people and should also be equitable across the board.

    Let me try to bring this back to the opioid issue. On one side we have corporations making millions of dollars of profit from distributing millions of kilos of opiates knowing full well the dangers of doing so, but, by pointing fingers none of the people that were actually involved and received those ill gotten profits will sit in the pen for even a millisecond. Whereas the individual arrested for one gram of an opiate gets one year and a felony on his record for life. This is where your form of judicious morality has gotten us.
    I agree. Amen. (But I would change "your" to "our" in the last sentence.)
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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Govt laws are not about morality...
    It is impossible to legislate morality... that must be a choice of the people.

    Govt laws in the USA are interpretations of the founding documents...
    Specifically clauses which define what people can and cannot do with their freedoms... and what the govt may and may not do!

    Sadly... very few folks bother to properly understand what the founders intended when they wrote the documents...
    So any slick polecat who has any talent at all at wordsmithing (spin)...
    Can fool the public into allowing the govt to take illegal advantage of them.

    Why do we not teach the founding documents in school anymore???
    When someone answers this question... we may start down the road of figuring out the REAL reasons our country is in trouble!
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    .

    Why do we not teach the founding documents in school anymore???
    When someone answers this question... we may start down the road of figuring out the REAL reasons our country is in trouble!
    Exactly. There is an agenda behind it.

    Liberals infiltrate and take over. Like a cancer. It happens everywhere. Even in places you'd never expect like the Boy Scouts and board rooms.

    So that being said, tell me how it's not an agenda.

    And it's funny how since leftists have taken over CEO, CFO and many corporate executive positions, wage disparity and corporate douchebaggery has increased.

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  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Of course morality can be legislated. I'm not sure what's missing here.
    We start creating laws based on something. Often the dominate religion.
    That's a basis. Knowing not all citizens are religious, civilian rules of engagement are necessary or maybe all of one side would knock off the other side.
    Many laws have morel content as their foundation.
    The 10 commandments are an outline for moral behavior but also as a means of controlling behavior for those that aren't so moral. Would you consider the 10 commandments moral laws because many of them are legislated.? Kill, steal, lie (except in civil matters you can lie, like divorce.)

    There are other laws that didn't always have the will of the people but were passed anyway. The Civil Rights Amendment for example was considered a moral law. There was a large part of the country that wanted nothing to do with this amendment but they were forced fed.
    Morality most certainly cannot be legislated...

    Someone is drinking the koolaid again!
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  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Morality most certainly cannot be legislated...

    Someone is drinking the koolaid again!
    Asleep at the wheel again. I carefully explained how and it's done every day.
    Re-read my post, take your time..... You really don't have a head for abstraction.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

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  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Asleep at the wheel again. I carefully explained how and it's done every day.
    Re-read my post, take your time..... You really don't have a head for abstraction.
    In your dreams... grin

    It does NOT work... some folks just want to believe it does...

    Morality comes from within ones personal choices...

    All that 'polishing on the outside' is just that... polishing turds!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    In your dreams... grin

    It does NOT work... some folks just want to believe it does...

    Morality comes from within ones personal choices...

    All that 'polishing on the outside' is just that... polishing turds!

    Your statement about morality coming from within is close to another idea. Emmanuel Kant's "Categorical Imperative" Roughly summed up that a person inherently knows right from wrong. That the knowledge of good/evil is born to the person. Somewhat different from your statement that morality is a choice made by the person.
    In Kant's idea of morality by nature of being and in the other where the person has an element of control by choice.
    The term personal as in personal choices is a bit problematic. Another discussion.

    Both examples require a person to either recognize good/evil, right/wrong as a natural process(Kant) or as needing human intervention to recognize ( personal choice) If this were true, we wouldn't need law. People would either know right/wrong simply by being human (Kant) or they would have a sense of morality from another source. Social structure, religion etc. and make the choices themselves.

    There's a catch. Take your idea that a person looks down a list of choices and chooses the most moral based on what ever criteria they have chosen.
    The problem is people. Some have broken moral compasses. Some are just too twisted to find theirs. Some are too rebellious to even look for one. And some don't agree with the laws ideas of what's moral. Then there's your statement as a whole.GA "Morality comes from within ones personal choices..." Problem here is "Who's morality".
    I'm sure you can see the problem. The essence of morality, it's origin, it's nature, what is choice and all that stuff.

    For an ideal law maker, they realize something more is needed to enforce the systems idea of what's right/wrong.
    So they make laws. Not for the people following the systems ideas of morality for whatever reason, but for the ones that don't.
    You could call this institutionalized morality.
    There are also people that follow these laws not out of any sense of morality but just expedience. They don't want to get caught. Mostly people just do what's expected of them w/o much soul searching.
    In the end the system has accomplished it's goal. A moral society. At least on the outside.

    Now if you were to say "That's not real morality because it's not from within." True enough but that wasn't the question. The ?? was if a society can make laws based on it's sense or traditions of what's moral. The basis can be anything.
    If your uncomfortable with the idea of legislating morality then try legislating behavior to Affect morality that is in effect legislating morality.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  12. #50
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    Big Pharma’s image sinks to new low amid opioid crisis, high drug prices
    Meanwhile, pharma execs are showering lawmakers with cash for favorable legislation.
    .
    The pharmaceutical industry has outdone itself.

    It is now the most widely hated industry in the US, unseating the federal government as the lowest of the low, according to a new Gallup poll.

    In the August 2019 poll, Americans were more than twice as likely to have a negative view of pharmaceutical companies than to have a positive view of them—that is, 58% held negative views while 27% held positive views, yielding a net-positive score of -31 points in the poll.

    The federal government, now the second most poorly regarded sector in the US, had a net-positive score of -27.

    The top three highly regarded industries were the restaurant, computer, and grocery industries.

    The pharmaceutical industry’s bottom rank marks its lowest rating in the history of the poll, which began in 2001. Few of the 25 industries included in the poll have managed to earn lower numbers. Those that have earned that distinction include the oil and gas industry, the real estate industry, automobile makers, and the federal government.

    Gallup noted that the polling came amid widespread backlash from high drug prices, the opioid epidemic, and pharmaceutical companies’ massive lobbying efforts to undermine popular policy initiatives.

    In fact, on Tuesday, STAT news reported that top pharmaceutical executives are using their own ample personal wealth to selectively fund a small band of GOP Senators who have sway over legislation that would affect the drug industry. A bill to lower drug costs now under consideration in the Senate is projected to cut revenue from the pharmaceutical industry by $85 billion over the next decade if passed.

    Executives from pharmaceutical giants such as Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Sanofi, and Amgen have personally given roughly $200,000 in total campaign donations in the past year to select Senators. Those include donations to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), and Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.).

    “It’s clear that some number of these CEOs are trying to make sure that Republican candidates who might act on this issue [of drug pricing] choose not to take it up,” Bob Blendon, a professor of political science and health policy at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, told STAT. “What you have here is an effort to make sure a popular issue with voters isn’t acted on.”

    Gallup noted that it was unlikely that the pharmaceutical industry will see a boost in its poll standings any time soon.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...h-drug-prices/
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

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  13. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    Big Pharma’s image sinks to new low amid opioid crisis, high drug prices
    Meanwhile, pharma execs are showering lawmakers with cash for favorable legislation.

    .
    The pharmaceutical industry has outdone itself.

    It is now the most widely hated industry in the US, unseating the federal government as the lowest of the low, according to a new Gallup poll.

    In the August 2019 poll, Americans were more than twice as likely to have a negative view of pharmaceutical companies than to have a positive view of them—that is, 58% held negative views while 27% held positive views, yielding a net-positive score of -31 points in the poll.

    The federal government, now the second most poorly regarded sector in the US, had a net-positive score of -27.

    The top three highly regarded industries were the restaurant, computer, and grocery industries.

    The pharmaceutical industry’s bottom rank marks its lowest rating in the history of the poll, which began in 2001. Few of the 25 industries included in the poll have managed to earn lower numbers. Those that have earned that distinction include the oil and gas industry, the real estate industry, automobile makers, and the federal government.

    Gallup noted that the polling came amid widespread backlash from high drug prices, the opioid epidemic, and pharmaceutical companies’ massive lobbying efforts to undermine popular policy initiatives.

    In fact, on Tuesday, STAT news reported that top pharmaceutical executives are using their own ample personal wealth to selectively fund a small band of GOP Senators who have sway over legislation that would affect the drug industry. A bill to lower drug costs now under consideration in the Senate is projected to cut revenue from the pharmaceutical industry by $85 billion over the next decade if passed.

    Executives from pharmaceutical giants such as Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Sanofi, and Amgen have personally given roughly $200,000 in total campaign donations in the past year to select Senators. Those include donations to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), and Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.).

    “It’s clear that some number of these CEOs are trying to make sure that Republican candidates who might act on this issue [of drug pricing] choose not to take it up,” Bob Blendon, a professor of political science and health policy at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, told STAT. “What you have here is an effort to make sure a popular issue with voters isn’t acted on.”

    Gallup noted that it was unlikely that the pharmaceutical industry will see a boost in its poll standings any time soon.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...h-drug-prices/

    According to all the shallow thinkers, single payer will fix this problem.

    It wouldn't make it worse at all.

    On a side note, it's a shame an idiots vote counts the same as mine.

  14. #52
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    Nothing will fix this, or most any other problem, except for total campaign reform. First: the citizens-united decision has to be reversed.

    And then campaign spending limits have to be imposed and then severely criminally enforced. No candidate can spend more than 20 times the amount of the annual salary paid by the office they seek.

    No holder of public office can remain in office for more than two terms.

    Until then - we're effed. So either demand change or relax and enjoy as best you can.

    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    According to all the shallow thinkers, single payer will fix this problem.

    It wouldn't make it worse at all.

    On a side note, it's a shame an idiots vote counts the same as mine.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

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