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  1. #1
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    Distech Envysion/Project assist

    Wanted to get others thoughts on this. I recently finished a decent size project with it, and can't believe how painful this ended up being. Now full disclosure I went to the class of a year ago and haven't used it since. So the learning curve was steep, and I only used the project assist portion not the full DGLux capabilities. The site was existing that another contractor had done several buildings prior to us getting this job so I had to follow the standards already in place. I didn't find laying out the navigation that hard or understanding the idea of the workflow through the 4 steps provided in the project assist section. What I found unbelievable was how extremely poor this stuff is at what I would consider a common task. Like no control key functions? Don't know how many times I hit the control D key to duplicate, or a common swipe to group things and nothing happens? Right click every time to open properties. Just a massive amount of extra click functions. Back and forth from the viewer to the edit sections which seems to takes to much time to load, and some items don't appear then a refresh of the page and magically they appear?Oh and where the heck is the alignment tools?The original site used all these data pages, and aligning the boxes without those tools is maddening!! We do a large amount of tridium work, and with the advancement of HTML stuff in N4 coming along I can see zero advantage of using this over the standard N4 graphics. Project assist was described as this easy, and quickly implemented graphic design tool that would ease the learning curve over using the full DGlux tool. It's anything but that in my opinion! A extreme exercise in patients and frustrating for someone with OCD.

  2. #2
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    I also JUST finished a project for 2 schools. I hear ya. As far as being better than the DGLux side, XpressEnvision (XE) is WAY WAY easier to deal with. We have a pair of experienced Javascript programmers that just spent 750 hous developing a usable template for a basic VAV based building... so limited application outside of that.

    Alignment is handled with a position box at the top if the properties box l. It comes up collapsed as a default, so it is easy to miss.

    I would LOVE a copy paste box I could put ORDs into instead of having to drill through the entire tree for every graphic.

    I have not heard about the expanded HTML5 graphics abilities. WAY WAY overdue in my opinion.

    The only real advantage I guess is that it slows down the competition when they try to take over the building as they wonder where the heck the graphics are...
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    I also JUST finished a project for 2 schools. I hear ya. As far as being better than the DGLux side, XpressEnvision (XE) is WAY WAY easier to deal with. We have a pair of experienced Javascript programmers that just spent 750 hous developing a usable template for a basic VAV based building... so limited application outside of that.

    Alignment is handled with a position box at the top if the properties box l. It comes up collapsed as a default, so it is easy to miss.

    I would LOVE a copy paste box I could put ORDs into instead of having to drill through the entire tree for every graphic.

    I have not heard about the expanded HTML5 graphics abilities. WAY WAY overdue in my opinion.

    The only real advantage I guess is that it slows down the competition when they try to take over the building as they wonder where the heck the graphics are...
    Yes I understand that Xpress Envysion is way easier. Heck I never will touch the full DGlux stuff and our shop probably would never entertain a graphics guy to spend 750 hours to create a standard template. Not saying in the end that couldn't save time and money just would never happen where I work. I will be looking on Monday for the alignment feature man that would have saved some time! Like I stated first attempt at this stuff on a larger scale. What I was meaning about N4 HTML5 advancement was where finally seeing some of the stuff work! And with templates and hierarchies you really can layout it with a similar NAV tree as envysion. Your statement about locking out other contractors was my exact thinking of why this was done at the site I did. Unless I'm doing eclypse we will never add this to a niagara job unless required. That stuff is pain in the a** I don't want to brag but for my first one it looks pretty good. Just took way to long!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    The only real advantage I guess is that it slows down the competition when they try to take over the building as they wonder where the heck the graphics are...
    That or the controls guy convinced the salesmen to tack it on there so he can screw around with graphics for an extra few days. Either way the customer is paying for something that is a net negative for them. There is no shortage of work in this field in most places, so resorting to these kind of tactics is pretty awful.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSLLC4Life View Post
    That or the controls guy convinced the salesmen to tack it on there so he can screw around with graphics for an extra few days. Either way the customer is paying for something that is a net negative for them. There is no shortage of work in this field in most places, so resorting to these kind of tactics is pretty awful.
    Well I sure the heck wouldn't the control guy that wants to spend extra days on graphics. I have so much on my plate I don't have any extra time on any project these days. Its very busy in our part of the world.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norriski Tech View Post
    Well I sure the heck wouldn't the control guy that wants to spend extra days on graphics. I have so much on my plate I don't have any extra time on any project these days. Its very busy in our part of the world.
    Sure, I wasn’t trying to imppy you in particular. I have just seen people post photos online of how proud they are of the days of work they spent in Envysion graphics which near as I could tell amounted to zero value to anyone. There is even a local competitor that now solely calls themselves an “integrator”. They only want to do graphics (not Envysion, but same mindset) and have even hired us, their former competitor, at times to install and program so they can do graphics. Turns into a giant mess and the customers end up with a substandard product in the end. We have been paid to go back and fix the mess their “integration” left several times by owners.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSLLC4Life View Post
    Sure, I wasn’t trying to imppy you in particular. I have just seen people post photos online of how proud they are of the days of work they spent in Envysion graphics which near as I could tell amounted to zero value to anyone. There is even a local competitor that now solely calls themselves an “integrator”. They only want to do graphics (not Envysion, but same mindset) and have even hired us, their former competitor, at times to install and program so they can do graphics. Turns into a giant mess and the customers end up with a substandard product in the end. We have been paid to go back and fix the mess their “integration” left several times by owners.
    I didn't think you were talking about me. We've had plenty of those guys in the past who want the sales guy to sell the things they want to learn no matter if it benefits the job or customer. It never really ends up being a benefit to us or the customer, and alot of the stuff ends up being one off stuff that we don't use again.Recently with new leadership and standards being put in place that has improved. Funny about the integrator in your area doing. Doesn't sound like they integrate anything?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSLLC4Life View Post
    There is even a local competitor that now solely calls themselves an “integrator”. They only want to do graphics (not Envysion, but same mindset)
    I would be curious to know what product they use? It would seem to be pretty enough to get the owners on board.

    Do you happen to know? Always looking to broaden my horizons.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

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