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  1. #27
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    Deism is a much better explain-er of things than is Theism.

    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    If you want to learn about God in college, you have to take philosophy, not science.
    A fair number of philosophy students become believers, regardless of what the teacher believes.
    They may not all become Christians or Jews, but they do at least become deists.

    Seems to me I read somewhere a while back that several of the founding fathers were deists.

    Edit:
    So I looked it up, as usual.

    The Faiths of the Founding Fathers
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Author David L. Holmes
    .
    The Faiths of the Founding Fathers is a book by historian of American religion David L. Holmes of the College of William & Mary. Holmes approaches the topic of the religion of the founders of the United States by analyzing their public statements and correspondence, the comments left by their contemporaries, and the views, where available, of clergy who knew them.

    The main thesis of the book, found on page 134, is that the U.S. Founding Fathers fell into three religious categories:

    1. the smallest group, founders who had left their Judeo-Christian heritages and become advocates of the Enlightenment religion of nature and reason called "Deism". These figures included Thomas Paine and Ethan Allen.
    2. the founders who remained practicing Christians. They retained a supernaturalist world view, a belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ, and an adherence to the teachings of their denomination. These founders included Patrick Henry, John Jay, and Samuel Adams. Holmes also finds that most of the wives and daughters of the founders fell into this category.
    3. the largest group consisted of founders who retained Christian loyalties and practice but were influenced by Deism. They believed in little or none of the miracles and supernaturalism inherent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Holmes finds a spectrum of such Deistic Christians among the founders, ranging from John Adams and George Washington on the conservative right to Benjamin Franklin and James Monroe on the skeptical left.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fa...unding_Fathers
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  2. #28
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    If you pay attention to the sciences / read between their lines - they clearly and repeatedly state that there is no way to explain the universe without a mindful and active participant creator figure.

    And the logic is clear. Random-chance has had insufficient time to produce the present results - and the basic elemental factors of life scream Definitive Thought Process of design.

    The basic flaw of Darwinism - in any comprehensive sense, is that any early-on failure completely dooms the effort. Virtually all mutations are fatal to the organism. So virtually all failures in the mutation process puts the entire effort back to square one - every time. All previous gains are lost.

    And the early efforts are the most critical in the process.

    PHM
    ---------


    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    leaving out the " God aspect " was intentional with the first video of the " thread about nothing ... ", taken into totality with the other videos chances of life on Earth ( uniqueness of our moon, DNA, ect .... ) is ridiculously slim, so then that leaves at minimum a question ....
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    If you pay attention to the sciences / read between their lines - they clearly and repeatedly state that there is no way to explain the universe without a mindful and active participant creator figure.

    And the logic is clear. Random-chance has had insufficient time to produce the present results - and the basic elemental factors of life scream Definitive Thought Process of design.

    The basic flaw of Darwinism - in any comprehensive sense, is that any early-on failure completely dooms the effort. Virtually all mutations are fatal to the organism. So virtually all failures in the mutation process puts the entire effort back to square one - every time. All previous gains are lost.

    And the early efforts are the most critical in the process.

    PHM
    ---------
    and those are just the scientific reasons, how about the possibility of divine intervention ? ever have anything ' un explainable ' happen in your life ? I surely have.

    point being, again, when taken into totality, just presenting stuff, people can draw their own conclusions, but this is a thread about nothing, or anything, OR as a poster stated, everything, so who knows where it will end up, perhaps a screw compressor in a two story metal shed building in the Florida Keys ?




  4. #30
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    That was Key West. I drove down there last year, stayed at The Duval House, and casually looked for that ice house. I never found it - there is a tourist-y dock full of shops and bars and so forth there now. I guess the fishing boats come in somewhere else now? Maybe on Stock Island. But at least Pepe's is still unchanged.

    PHM
    ---------


    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    and those are just the scientific reasons, how about the possibility of divine intervention ? ever have anything ' un explainable ' happen in your life ? I surely have.

    point being, again, when taken into totality, just presenting stuff, people can draw their own conclusions, but this is a thread about nothing, or anything, OR as a poster stated, everything, so who knows where it will end up, perhaps a screw compressor in a two story metal shed building in the Florida Keys ?



    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    That was Key West. I drove down there last year, stayed at The Duval House, and casually looked for that ice house. I never found it - there is a tourist-y dock full of shops and bars and so forth there now. I guess the fishing boats come in somewhere else now? Maybe on Stock Island. But at least Pepe's is still unchanged.

    PHM
    ---------
    ahhh, perhaps that is why you were unable to find the ice house, you ' casually looked ' for it, maybe you should have ' listened ' for it ?

  6. #32
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    I think I would have heard it - if it was still running. That sound is unmistakable.

    I should have never left there - should have given that (I can't readily think of a descriptive word that I am allowed to use here) woman everything I couldn't fit on the boat and never given any of it another thought.

    PHM
    ---------

    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    ahhh, perhaps that is why you were unable to find the ice house, you ' casually looked ' for it, maybe you should have ' listened ' for it ?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I think I would have heard it - if it was still running. That sound is unmistakable.

    I should have never left there - should have given that (I can't readily think of a descriptive word that I am allowed to use here) woman everything I couldn't fit on the boat and never given any of it another thought.

    PHM
    ---------
    well, sometimes you need to look at the bright side, at least you did not end up getting enticed to live a life of never ending debauchery by the hundreds upon hundreds of beautiful women from all over the world that visit Key West.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    and those are just the scientific reasons, how about the possibility of divine intervention ? ever have anything ' un explainable ' happen in your life ? I surely have.

    point being, again, when taken into totality, just presenting stuff, people can draw their own conclusions, but this is a thread about nothing, or anything, OR as a poster stated, everything, so who knows where it will end up, perhaps a screw compressor in a two story metal shed building in the Florida Keys ?



    A lot of these things happen...

    One only needs to get outside their 'finite science mindset' (think outside their pre-designed box)...

    To see them...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  9. #35
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    New Findings Muddy Understanding Of Dark Matter
    Observations of rotating galaxies could be explained without including dark matter, which may require changes to prevailing theories.
    September 30, 2016
    .
    Dark matter was proposed to help explain a variety of cosmic puzzles, such as why galaxies can spin as fast as they are observed to without being ripped apart. However, the nature of dark matter remains a puzzle in itself. Now scientists analyzing more than 150 galaxies find that dark matter might not explain their new observations, which they say hints that dark matter might not exist and that a new law of nature might be needed to solve all these mysteries.

    Newton's laws of motion predict that planets that revolve closer to a star move faster than those that are farther away. In principle this should also hold true for stars circling the cores of galaxies, but for nearly a century, astronomers have seen that stars near the outskirts of galaxies orbit at nearly the same velocities as ones near galactic centers.

    To explain why these outlying stars travel as quickly as they do without flying out into the void beyond, researchers came up with the idea of dark matter, a substance whose gravitational pull is thought to keep whirling stars in check. Scientists have largely ruled out all known particles as possible explanations for dark matter, and the consensus is that dark matter must be a kind of invisible, intangible material that is only detectable via its gravitational influence.

    However, despite decades of trying, researchers have failed to capture a single mote of dark matter, even though it is supposed to make up roughly five-sixths of all matter in the universe. This raises the possibility that dark matter might not be real.

    Now researchers examining 153 galaxies find that by looking solely at where stars and gases in those galaxies are located, they could precisely predict the anomalous ways in which they moved. This may hint that dark matter is more strongly coupled to normal matter than currently thought. It could also indicate that dark matter does not exist and that another explanation is needed for the discrepancies that dark matter models were invoked to solve, said study lead author Stacy McGaugh, an astrophysicist and chair of astronomy at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland.

    Previous analyses of the orbital velocities of the stars in galaxies often depended on visible wavelengths of light. However, the stars that produce the most visible light are relatively short-lived and prone to fluctuations, and so may not provide the best picture of how matter is scattered overall throughout a galaxy.

    Instead, McGaugh and his colleagues analyzed near-infrared images collected by NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope over the past five years.

    "The stars that generate the most near-infrared light are red giants, that are pretty stable in their output, and so are much better representative of a galaxy's total mass of stars," McGaugh said.

    The researchers found an extraordinarily close association between the location of normal matter and the way it accelerates around the centers of galaxies.

    "We were surprised at how tight that relationship was," McGaugh said. "It looks tantamount to a law of nature."

    This association held true for galaxies of many different kinds, ranging from giant to dwarf size, spiral to irregular shape, those with massive central bulges to ones with none at all, and those comprised of mostly stars or mostly gas.

    "These galaxies are very different from one another, so finding this tight relationship is startling," said study co-author Federico Lelli, an astrophysicist also at Case Western Reserve University.

    One possible explanation for this pattern suggests that at large scales, the laws of gravity are different from Einstein’s theory of general relativity. This idea, known as Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND), was proposed more than 30 years ago by Israeli physicist Moti Milgrom.

    "It seems to work very nicely, reproducing the observations we have of galaxies," said Abraham Loeb, a theoretical astrophysicist and chair of astronomy at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, who did not take part in this research. "The new data are exactly what MOND would have expected."

    Read the rest:
    https://www.insidescience.org/news/n...ng-dark-matter


    Dark matter unnecessary?
    https://behindtheblack.com/behind-th...r-unnecessary/
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    New Findings Muddy Understanding Of Dark Matter
    Observations of rotating galaxies could be explained without including dark matter, which may require changes to prevailing theories.
    September 30, 2016
    .
    Dark matter was proposed to help explain a variety of cosmic puzzles, such as why galaxies can spin as fast as they are observed to without being ripped apart. However, the nature of dark matter remains a puzzle in itself. Now scientists analyzing more than 150 galaxies find that dark matter might not explain their new observations, which they say hints that dark matter might not exist and that a new law of nature might be needed to solve all these mysteries.

    Newton's laws of motion predict that planets that revolve closer to a star move faster than those that are farther away. In principle this should also hold true for stars circling the cores of galaxies, but for nearly a century, astronomers have seen that stars near the outskirts of galaxies orbit at nearly the same velocities as ones near galactic centers.

    To explain why these outlying stars travel as quickly as they do without flying out into the void beyond, researchers came up with the idea of dark matter, a substance whose gravitational pull is thought to keep whirling stars in check. Scientists have largely ruled out all known particles as possible explanations for dark matter, and the consensus is that dark matter must be a kind of invisible, intangible material that is only detectable via its gravitational influence.

    However, despite decades of trying, researchers have failed to capture a single mote of dark matter, even though it is supposed to make up roughly five-sixths of all matter in the universe. This raises the possibility that dark matter might not be real.

    Now researchers examining 153 galaxies find that by looking solely at where stars and gases in those galaxies are located, they could precisely predict the anomalous ways in which they moved. This may hint that dark matter is more strongly coupled to normal matter than currently thought. It could also indicate that dark matter does not exist and that another explanation is needed for the discrepancies that dark matter models were invoked to solve, said study lead author Stacy McGaugh, an astrophysicist and chair of astronomy at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland.

    Previous analyses of the orbital velocities of the stars in galaxies often depended on visible wavelengths of light. However, the stars that produce the most visible light are relatively short-lived and prone to fluctuations, and so may not provide the best picture of how matter is scattered overall throughout a galaxy.

    Instead, McGaugh and his colleagues analyzed near-infrared images collected by NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope over the past five years.

    "The stars that generate the most near-infrared light are red giants, that are pretty stable in their output, and so are much better representative of a galaxy's total mass of stars," McGaugh said.

    The researchers found an extraordinarily close association between the location of normal matter and the way it accelerates around the centers of galaxies.

    "We were surprised at how tight that relationship was," McGaugh said. "It looks tantamount to a law of nature."

    This association held true for galaxies of many different kinds, ranging from giant to dwarf size, spiral to irregular shape, those with massive central bulges to ones with none at all, and those comprised of mostly stars or mostly gas.

    "These galaxies are very different from one another, so finding this tight relationship is startling," said study co-author Federico Lelli, an astrophysicist also at Case Western Reserve University.

    One possible explanation for this pattern suggests that at large scales, the laws of gravity are different from Einstein’s theory of general relativity. This idea, known as Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND), was proposed more than 30 years ago by Israeli physicist Moti Milgrom.

    "It seems to work very nicely, reproducing the observations we have of galaxies," said Abraham Loeb, a theoretical astrophysicist and chair of astronomy at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, who did not take part in this research. "The new data are exactly what MOND would have expected."

    Read the rest:
    https://www.insidescience.org/news/n...ng-dark-matter


    Dark matter unnecessary?
    https://behindtheblack.com/behind-th...r-unnecessary/
    that's weird, why would stars on the outskirts of a galaxy orbit at the nearly the same velocity as those near its center ? its like they are some kind of gel.

  11. #37
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    I was talking to some professors some years ago and it was just about the time that dark matter was being discussed in mainstream publications. In our conversations a common reference made was to 'the big bang'. After it was mentioned a few times I said: That theory is flawed - I don't think there was a big explosion, or at least not the way it's usually described.

    We went on to talk about dark matter / dark energy - which never made any sense to me - for a bit until someone said to me: So what Is your theory? If there was no big bang?

    Of course I didn't have one and had just been 'tweaking' them when I had mentioned that the big bang was wrong. <g> But I thought about it for a second and then proposed that rather than a big explosion - force being supplied outward - the pinpoint of dense matter containing all the matter that there is was Pulled outward and apart - out into a massive vacuum. A process which has yet to equalize the pressures involved.

    They paused for a second and someone laughed and said: Well; that would explain why the outward motion is accelerating rather than what would happen with an explosion - a gradually slowing rate of expansion.

    But, as usual; nothing was concluded, the women came in, cigars went out, and that was the end of it.

    But ever since then I have proposed that alternate theory. And of course the more I said it the more it made sense to me. Fortunately for me; all I have to do is to propose it, and then maybe talk about it - I never have to prove it. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  12. #38
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    Maybe distance is as malleable as time.

    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    that's weird, why would stars on the outskirts of a galaxy orbit at the nearly the same velocity as those near its center ? its like they are some kind of gel.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I was talking to some professors some years ago and it was just about the time that dark matter was being discussed in mainstream publications. In our conversations a common reference made was to 'the big bang'. After it was mentioned a few times I said: That theory is flawed - I don't think there was a big explosion, or at least not the way it's usually described.

    We went on to talk about dark matter / dark energy - which never made any sense to me - for a bit until someone said to me: So what Is your theory? If there was no big bang?

    Of course I didn't have one and had just been 'tweaking' them when I had mentioned that the big bang was wrong. <g> But I thought about it for a second and then proposed that rather than a big explosion - force being supplied outward - the pinpoint of dense matter containing all the matter that there is was Pulled outward and apart - out into a massive vacuum. A process which has yet to equalize the pressures involved.

    They paused for a second and someone laughed and said: Well; that would explain why the outward motion is accelerating rather than what would happen with an explosion - a gradually slowing rate of expansion.

    But, as usual; nothing was concluded, the women came in, cigars went out, and that was the end of it.

    But ever since then I have proposed that alternate theory. And of course the more I said it the more it made sense to me. Fortunately for me; all I have to do is to propose it, and then maybe talk about it - I never have to prove it. <g>
    what I don't understand is if these galaxies, in the observable universe, are some 45 billion light years or so away, with the light from them taking some 13 billion years or so to get here, then how can they say what these galaxies are doing now ?

    so what would you call your theory ? the ' big suck ' ?

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