Crazy, needs your support or immediate rejection

[CanStage]

Have a 26yr old 15-tonne electric powered HVAC unit. Recently, A/C portion has failed. No way of repair. Fan still works, heating coils still work.

Need to provide A/C to a 1.5-2 story work space. No real money, and no means to fix or replace HVAC unit without major cash injection and taking out heritage walls, or current office construction.

I know, horrible situation.

Any possibility that I can get a few off-the-shelf ~15k BTU A/C units, blowing their cold air into existing ductwork (fan still works) and vent hot air into HVAC return? Can't vent through any window or wall. Trust me.

Is this idea stupid/how stupid is this idea?

[Answer-Man]

Send whomever is doing whatever in the workspace someplace else to do their work

[VTP99]

Send whomever is doing whatever in the workspace someplace else to do their work

Truth be told here....

[Answer-Man]

Truth be told here....

What this is a jail or prison?

[ammoniadog]

Any possibility that I can get a few off-the-shelf ~15k BTU A/C units, blowing their cold air into existing ductwork (fan still works) and vent hot air into HVAC return? Can't vent through any window or wall. Trust me.

Is this idea stupid/how stupid is this idea?

Yes, that idea is stupid. Very stupid. It's not a perpetual motion machine that we're talking about here. The heat from the condenser needs to be rejected to someplace other than the place you are trying to cool.

What you are describing would be like plopping a window air conditioner on the table in the middle of your room. Yes, you would get cold air blowing out the front of it, but warm air blowing out the back. The problem is that there's more warm air produced than there is cool air, and the room would slowly get warmer and warmer. Soon it would become unbearable, even with the slightly cooled air blowing out of the front.

All air conditioners need to have the "waste heat" discharged to a place where it will make no difference, which is usually outside.

[VTP99]

What this is a jail or prison?

Only he knows, I'm just in agreement with you.

[kdean1]

Have a 26yr old 15-tonne electric powered HVAC unit. Recently, A/C portion has failed. No way of repair. Fan still works, heating coils still work.

Need to provide A/C to a 1.5-2 story work space. No real money, and no means to fix or replace HVAC unit without major cash injection and taking out heritage walls, or current office construction.

I know, horrible situation.

Any possibility that I can get a few off-the-shelf ~15k BTU A/C units, blowing their cold air into existing ductwork (fan still works) and vent hot air into HVAC return? Can't vent through any window or wall. Trust me.

Is this idea stupid/how stupid is this idea?

The idea is completely impractical. Your Rube Goldberg suggestion just won't work.

[BALloyd]

Do you own the building???? If not...are you leasing???

If you are leasing, who is responsible for building capital equipment costs according to your lease agreement????



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[Answer-Man]

Only he knows, I'm just in agreement with you.

You'd think if he really wanted help he'd provide some real information that could be used just what could be done, But go figure.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Immediate Rejection

PHM
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Have a 26yr old 15-tonne electric powered HVAC unit. Recently, A/C portion has failed. No way of repair. Fan still works, heating coils still work.

Need to provide A/C to a 1.5-2 story work space. No real money, and no means to fix or replace HVAC unit without major cash injection and taking out heritage walls, or current office construction.

I know, horrible situation.

Any possibility that I can get a few off-the-shelf ~15k BTU A/C units, blowing their cold air into existing ductwork (fan still works) and vent hot air into HVAC return? Can't vent through any window or wall. Trust me.

Is this idea stupid/how stupid is this idea?

[VTP99]

Sounds like he needs heat rejection

[pecmsg]

Have a 26yr old 15-tonne electric powered HVAC unit. Recently, A/C portion has failed. No way of repair. Fan still works, heating coils still work.

Need to provide A/C to a 1.5-2 story work space. No real money, and no means to fix or replace HVAC unit without major cash injection and taking out heritage walls, or current office construction.

I know, horrible situation.

Any possibility that I can get a few off-the-shelf ~15k BTU A/C units, blowing their cold air into existing ductwork (fan still works) and vent hot air into HVAC return? Can't vent through any window or wall. Trust me.

Is this idea stupid/how stupid is this idea?

You've had 26 years to budget replacement life cycle costs...……………………..

Someone's not doing a very good job!

[Poodle Head Mikey]

You will need a dozen 15K units. That will run about $6000. For $6000. or less I bet the old unit could be all, or at least somewhat, repaired. What is wrong with it that is impossible to fix?

Who will be doing this work anyway?

If it were me; maybe we could pipe in three 5 ton condensing units and add three pistons to the evaporator. <g>

PHM
-----------

Have a 26yr old 15-tonne electric powered HVAC unit. Recently, A/C portion has failed. No way of repair. Fan still works, heating coils still work.

Need to provide A/C to a 1.5-2 story work space. No real money, and no means to fix or replace HVAC unit without major cash injection and taking out heritage walls, or current office construction.

I know, horrible situation.

Any possibility that I can get a few off-the-shelf ~15k BTU A/C units, blowing their cold air into existing ductwork (fan still works) and vent hot air into HVAC return? Can't vent through any window or wall. Trust me.

Is this idea stupid/how stupid is this idea?

[VTP99]

Where there's a will there's a way....

[thatguy]

I like it when customers present problems like this because they are always happy and surprised when they see it working again. Who said it can’t be fixed? Have you gotten a second (or third) opinion? What exactly makes it unfixable? Often times things look worse than they actually are. I find it’s not very often things become so broke they can be fixed at all, it’s usually just more reliable to replace than repair. In this case it sounds like replace isn’t really an option at all but retrofit may be a solution. I would scrape together as much as you can find for this repair and have a good conversation with a creative tech about how you can make it work. If you don’t put enough money into it then you may end up with a photo on the wall of shame (and to be honest it sounds like that would be acceptable to you at this point of desperation), but if it works then it’s still a great success. 26 years is getting old but there are some buildings that I maintain that has much older equipment and it’s still going strong. I would suggest you don’t take it out back to shoot it without first talking to a few more technicians from various companies. Not everyone will be able to see the answer to the problem so finding the right tech will be part of your problem. They are out there though.


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[CanStage]

Thanks.

Forgive my lack of understanding, I'm not an HVAC tech, just a placeholder property manager at a theatre that works out of a 130-year old building.

The "waste heat" coming each of the A/C units would be pushed right back into the HVAC units return (a 2'x3' intake) immediately beside the unit. I was thinking that the waste heat would enter the return, cycle through, and would be at least room temperature by the time it is in the ducts going back out to the offices.

[CanStage]

Thanks

Have had opinions from 4 technicians over 3 companies, and another from a consultant in an engineering firm. There are 2 confirmed, and maybe more leaks on the refrigerant lines. all the techs stated that any attempt at repair the leaks had a good chance of making them worse. The unit is in an incredibly tight space, that was pretty much walled up around it. The techs and the consultant all recommended replacement.

[CanStage]

Do you own the building???? If not...are you leasing???

If you are leasing, who is responsible for building capital equipment costs according to your lease agreement????



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Thanks

Leasing.

We have a below-market lease. We get the property for a very affordable price, but are on the hook for most all repairs and all upkeep. Currently landlord has no interest in remedying this issue, as it is in our contract for the tenant (us) to perform the upkeep of the system.

[Answer-Man]

Thank you for additional information. You stated all vendors recommended replacement but you did not say if they provided a repair opition. They're just bounding their work with known replacement work. Repairs are many time crapshoots as you just don't know all that could be wrong. It's easier to pull out the old and replace with new. I woulld call sevral others and those whom you have already talked to tell them you are interested in repair not replacement. While I do not know what your contact says, you state you are responsible for upkeep, that typically means cleaning, filters, seasonal tune up, some refrigerant, maybe some other misc repairs. But upkeep is different than replacement due to, wear out, obsolence or damage. No one will pay to sit in a hot theater to watch a movie, which means your client is loosing revenue. How long before they fail to make rent payment. Which means the building owner is now loosing revenue. This probably also means you loose income for your part in this operation. There should be discussion with tennet and owner of a potential shared repair/replacement cost. Get some additional (repair) quotes add them to your replacement quotes and call a meeting (you buy the lunch). If a deal is not worked out I doubt you remain in business.

Good Luck

[BALloyd]

It is common for the leaseholder to be responsible for maintenance the unit. It is uncommon for the tenant to be responsible for replacing equipment past its service life, but this all depends on your lease agreement.

At 26 years old and after having paid for several independent opinions, I believe your landlord should be bucking up for a new system.

Thanks

Leasing.

We have a below-market lease. We get the property for a very affordable price, but are on the hook for most all repairs and all upkeep. Currently landlord has no interest in remedying this issue, as it is in our contract for the tenant (us) to perform the upkeep of the system.

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