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  1. #14
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    Not practical but if someone could build a giant capacitor that could store a lightning bolt and a way to bleed it off at a controlled rate power would be free for a good while afterwards.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    Solar is ok.. but will not do anything at night.. however there is usually sun during peak hours.
    Wind . Comes and goes .
    Hydro... Steady.. The problem here is home business and roads next to Rivers..which would require a lot of people to have to relocate. .. EPA... Giant thorn as well.. they look for reasons to deny building and play with the dirt for years before a denial.
    What is the mm stand for in mmgw by the way

    Sent from LG Stylo 4 using Tapatalk
    Now when I mentioned hydro, I was not thinking about conventional hydro-dams. I understand they are in place and highly regulated. Build a lake=drown a city, I get it. My thoughts on hydro has nothing to do with that.

    But we can discuss that later, if you are correct that household refrigeration is 30% of energy consumption, your idea of 'chest type' refrigeration would probably knock that down to 10% or even less. No retrofits available, but could be a standard in new homes. Thrilling prospect!

    You should approach someone with the concept, Whirlpool or GE, somebody like that. Maybe even a government entity.

    Think about it... no matter how efficient your mechanical system is, no matter how well insulated your box, and no matter how well your door gaskets seal,... doesn't matter a tinker's damn when you open the door to simply fetch a beer and spill 8 cubic feet of cold air on the floor.

    I think you are on to something big.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

    "This is me, I'm not at home. If you'd like to reach me, leave me alone." Sherl Crow

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by model m-man View Post
    Not practical but if someone could build a giant capacitor that could store a lightning bolt and a way to bleed it off at a controlled rate power would be free for a good while afterwards.
    I fully agree with your basic concept: There is a natural electric charge there and there HAS TO BE some way to harness it! MUST BE!

    I am less likely to think a lightning bolt could be stored, but the energy is there, maybe some way to generate off the energy without actual lightning bolts? The energy is up there, clamoring to come down to earth, perhaps a way to 'generate' a pathway without a lightning strike?
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

    "This is me, I'm not at home. If you'd like to reach me, leave me alone." Sherl Crow

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    You may be onto something there. I remember I almost bought a 'used' refrigerator many years ago. It was large, it actually had a small 'reach in' door. Very cool design. Think about it, most of our modern fridges are side/side doors and anytime you open it all the cold air spills out instantly.

    What I am getting at is: I don't care if the damned thing is *energy star compliant* if it just wastes energy by bad design. Why in the heck are we dumping 8 cubic feet of cold air in the floor everytime we 'go fetch a beer'? Three horizontal doors would be less wasteful. A small reach-in door maybe. I think better design will trump better mechanical efficiency from where we stand at this point in time.

    Does anyone know our approximate energy consumption by % in the home or overall?
    Yeah... as a matter of fact... the current fridge in my kitchen is a GE... with the small door on the front of the fridge side... holds about the equivalent of 2x gallon milk jugs. Unit is on its last leg though... freezer will not make it lower than about 10*F...
    I have a 5 year old Samsung french door unit in the garage... has a problem: it will stay cold for 3-4 days, then the next day it is room temp inside, then the next day it is cold again for days. When busy season slows down... will figure it out and fix it. Unit is a really nice high end unit, in good shape... just needs some repair.

    On the fridges... IMO the design is mostly convenience.
    I like the idea of a 4 door fridge (see them in HD)... however they are expensive.

    Now at my home... I have a 2nd fridge in the utility room (IMO better to have it in the house than in the garage, as in the garage it has to work harder due to the warmer temp).

    Keep the beer in the second one.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Now when I mentioned hydro, I was not thinking about conventional hydro-dams. I understand they are in place and highly regulated. Build a lake=drown a city, I get it. My thoughts on hydro has nothing to do with that.

    But we can discuss that later, if you are correct that household refrigeration is 30% of energy consumption, your idea of 'chest type' refrigeration would probably knock that down to 10% or even less. No retrofits available, but could be a standard in new homes. Thrilling prospect!

    You should approach someone with the concept, Whirlpool or GE, somebody like that. Maybe even a government entity.

    Think about it... no matter how efficient your mechanical system is, no matter how well insulated your box, and no matter how well your door gaskets seal,... doesn't matter a tinker's damn when you open the door to simply fetch a beer and spill 8 cubic feet of cold air on the floor.

    I think you are on to something big.
    I was saying household electric is about a third of CO2 emissions.
    How much energy someone uses for a fridge is something else..I don't think it will be a third of a homeowner bill


    Sent from LG Stylo 4 using Tapatalk
    ...

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I fully agree with your basic concept: There is a natural electric charge there and there HAS TO BE some way to harness it! MUST BE!

    I am less likely to think a lightning bolt could be stored, but the energy is there, maybe some way to generate off the energy without actual lightning bolts? The energy is up there, clamoring to come down to earth, perhaps a way to 'generate' a pathway without a lightning strike?
    Yeah... capturing the entire energy of a lightning bolt electrically, instantly, may be difficult... used to be (before BHO)... there were folks working on that... somehow, funding for social programs was more important...

    Lets think about this for a minute (not BHO, lightning)...
    Lightning is a HUGE charge of negative in a cloud, and a HUGE charge of positive on the earth (or in another cloud)... and a spark (albeit a HUGE spark) equalizing the charge.

    How about... lets figure out a way to charge a lake with the opposite charge as the cloud, thus inducing a lightning bolt to the lake... as a result of the lightning bolt, the water will be heated (hopefully not boiled off). There should be some way to harness the energy of that heat energy in the lake...
    But the environmental whachos... will say an obscure micro-fish, that nobody even knew existed until now... was more important...
    Really, a micro fish is more important than cleaning up the air???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    I was saying household electric is about a third of CO2 emissions.
    How much energy someone uses for a fridge is something else..I don't think it will be a third of a homeowner bill


    Sent from LG Stylo 4 using Tapatalk
    It is said that about 1/2 of the average HO energy bill (N/gas + elec) is heating and cooling.
    IMO we are on the road to fixing that.

    What we need now... is to make the rest of the appliances more energy efficient!
    And we are on the road for that also...
    *LED bulbs
    *Super high efficiency water heaters
    *Front loader washing machines
    *LG had a clothes dryer that used a refrigeration cycle to dry the clothes, rather than strips, for heat... not sure if it ever caught on though... it DID use less power.

    In the state of GA... we have either 3 or 4 power plants that have 2x lakes... one higher than the other.
    During the night when the FF plants are running full capacity (most power plants to NOT throttle well), the generator plant pumps the water up to the high lake with the excess power; then during the day during peak loads, the water runs down and makes power.

    What if we reversed that operation... during the day when wind and solar are plentiful...
    We pumped the water up to the higher lake... then let it run down during the night to produce power when the solar and wind are not producing power???

    Thoughts???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  8. #21
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    I floated this idea in the other thread. Turns out it is in operation in different parts of the world. Hybrid systems is the only way forward.

    http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/...roelectricity/

  9. #22
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    A study on fridge efficiency and door opening.

    https://scialert.net/fulltext/amp.ph...aps.2014.79.87

    I would suggest a vertical fridge like we have today but with multiple doors is the most likely to win market share. No redesign of the kitchen is needed.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    You may be onto something there. I remember I almost bought a 'used' refrigerator many years ago. It was large, it actually had a small 'reach in' door. Very cool design. Think about it, most of our modern fridges are side/side doors and anytime you open it all the cold air spills out instantly.

    What I am getting at is: I don't care if the damned thing is *energy star compliant* if it just wastes energy by bad design. Why in the heck are we dumping 8 cubic feet of cold air in the floor everytime we 'go fetch a beer'? Three horizontal doors would be less wasteful. A small reach-in door maybe. I think better design will trump better mechanical efficiency from where we stand at this point in time.

    Does anyone know our approximate energy consumption by % in the home or overall?
    Get a beer fridge.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=beer+fridge

    Just put a 12-pack or a case in it and fill the empty spaces with jars of water.
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    It is said that about 1/2 of the average HO energy bill (N/gas + elec) is heating and cooling.
    IMO we are on the road to fixing that.

    What we need now... is to make the rest of the appliances more energy efficient!
    And we are on the road for that also...
    *LED bulbs
    *Super high efficiency water heaters
    *Front loader washing machines
    *LG had a clothes dryer that used a refrigeration cycle to dry the clothes, rather than strips, for heat... not sure if it ever caught on though... it DID use less power.

    In the state of GA... we have either 3 or 4 power plants that have 2x lakes... one higher than the other.
    During the night when the FF plants are running full capacity (most power plants to NOT throttle well), the generator plant pumps the water up to the high lake with the excess power; then during the day during peak loads, the water runs down and makes power.

    What if we reversed that operation... during the day when wind and solar are plentiful...
    We pumped the water up to the higher lake... then let it run down during the night to produce power when the solar and wind are not producing power???

    Thoughts???
    well heating and cooling are the biggest as you said..however during heating season nothing is really wasted with indoor appliances as waste heat stays indoors.
    Water heaters aren't going to get much better..they will keep water hit for a long time now if they are turned off.
    The energy conserving washing machines all need to be crushed....not saving any money by tossing around the clothes for two hours.
    My washer.. 30 minutes flat large load.
    Improving spin cycle speed however can save dryer time later.
    These new dryers that take 90 minutes to dry need to go to the crusher.
    Exhaust is about 150 cfm.. which means all that air has to be replaced..let's say it 10 degrees outside.its the same as blowing in 150 cfm of ten degree are in the home.
    No thanks..I can take my old dryer and dry a load of jeans in 45 minutes..155 -20 snap switch....the faster the better as you don't have to reheat it re cool the home.
    With your Power plant proposal..it would take energy to pump that water..FF energy is not free...so pumping it to use as hydro later would be a waste.. Most lakes at plants are equipment cooling lakes ..if it had to be pumped up hill then yes you could benefit to get some of energy back from gravity.... However the approach to recoup waste heat would be to reclaim heat back to energy



    Sent from LG Stylo 4 using Tapatalk
    ...

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    well heating and cooling are the biggest as you said..however during heating season nothing is really wasted with indoor appliances as waste heat stays indoors.
    Water heaters aren't going to get much better..they will keep water hit for a long time now if they are turned off.
    The energy conserving washing machines all need to be crushed....not saving any money by tossing around the clothes for two hours.
    My washer.. 30 minutes flat large load.
    Improving spin cycle speed however can save dryer time later.
    These new dryers that take 90 minutes to dry need to go to the crusher.
    Exhaust is about 150 cfm.. which means all that air has to be replaced..let's say it 10 degrees outside.its the same as blowing in 150 cfm of ten degree are in the home.
    No thanks..I can take my old dryer and dry a load of jeans in 45 minutes..155 -20 snap switch....the faster the better as you don't have to reheat it re cool the home.
    With your Power plant proposal..it would take energy to pump that water..FF energy is not free...so pumping it to use as hydro later would be a waste.. Most lakes at plants are equipment cooling lakes ..if it had to be pumped up hill then yes you could benefit to get some of energy back from gravity.... However the approach to recoup waste heat would be to reclaim heat back to energy



    Sent from LG Stylo 4 using Tapatalk
    The pumping of the water is done by the power generated by solar and wind. In effect that higher elevation dam is a potential energy 'battery'. When the sun sets or wind isn't blowing, switch to hydro only.

    Dam also used for water supply, fishing, recreation. Win win.

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    well heating and cooling are the biggest as you said..however during heating season nothing is really wasted with indoor appliances as waste heat stays indoors.
    Water heaters aren't going to get much better..they will keep water hit for a long time now if they are turned off.
    The energy conserving washing machines all need to be crushed....not saving any money by tossing around the clothes for two hours.
    My washer.. 30 minutes flat large load.
    Improving spin cycle speed however can save dryer time later.
    These new dryers that take 90 minutes to dry need to go to the crusher.
    Exhaust is about 150 cfm.. which means all that air has to be replaced..let's say it 10 degrees outside.its the same as blowing in 150 cfm of ten degree are in the home.
    No thanks..I can take my old dryer and dry a load of jeans in 45 minutes..155 -20 snap switch....the faster the better as you don't have to reheat it re cool the home.
    With your Power plant proposal..it would take energy to pump that water..FF energy is not free...so pumping it to use as hydro later would be a waste.. Most lakes at plants are equipment cooling lakes ..if it had to be pumped up hill then yes you could benefit to get some of energy back from gravity.... However the approach to recoup waste heat would be to reclaim heat back to energy



    Sent from LG Stylo 4 using Tapatalk
    Front loader washers do save energy... including the high speed spin that shortens drying time.
    If you have ever seen a house fire from a dryer (usually the vent is clogged with lint)...
    You will NOT mess with the thermal limiters.

    On the power plant thing...
    Most power plants do NOT throttle... they either run flat out, or they shut down. Some can be brought down to 75-80%... however the process takes hours to do... not like the accelerator in your van.
    The reason to pump the water UP... is to use up the power the plant is making at 100%... believe it or not... the engineers figured out this one... it IS the most efficient way to make power.
    And you can bet your investment account... if the engineers could figure out a cheaper way to make power... the power companies would do it... because the rate does not change... their efficiency is the ONLY way to lower costs and raise profits.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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