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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Tool, I'm bummed at the fact that despite the number of times that I have tried to explain this to you that you do not accept it. You are a smart person and certainly thoughtful in your replies, yet you seem to wear some sort of blinders on this issue. Or I am a crappy explainer.

    Let's start with the "cyclical pattern of planetary climate". It's called the Milankovitch cycle because it was first proposed by a Russian scientist by the name of Milutin Milankovitch in the 1950's. It has a few issues to it, but generally speaking it describes the appearance and length (not perfectly on the length part) of climate events, particularly ice ages. This is how we know, as you say, that "There have been cyclical ice ages known for the history of earth. And we are overdue for the next one as marked on the calendar."

    And yet, amusingly, folks on your side of the football field will always attack the fact that, despite the warming that occurred, in the 1960's, scientists predicted cooling! So how can we trust anything that they say, right?

    They made that prediction based exactly on well-established precedent... or, in other words, the Milankovitch cycle!



    Heh, actually we DO know why and that's exactly the point (if not well but unintentionally made by you *grin*). We are supposed to be cooling but instead we are warming. Hmmm. What on Earth could it be?

    Sorry, couldn't help myself.

    Tool, the science of climate change is not something that recently came to be. We've known for centuries about the greenhouse effect. Through the study of isotopes science can determine many things, really the science is incredible, but in this case they tell us the difference in molecular weights between different C02 molecules.

    Naturally occurring C02 comes mostly from volcanic activity. Since the C02 produced is not plant based, but rather molten-rock based,it has a heavier carbon molecule than plant-based C02. Scientists measure the ratio between the light and heavy and that's how we know that the rise of C02 is human generated (since fossil fuels are made from decaying plants).

    Final point: in the history of climate change, the reason that the Earth recovered is not some magical property that this planet has as some would like to suggest. Instead, recovery occurred because the cause stopped causing. If the cause was the cycle, then in 50,000 years it would reverse. If the cause was an object such as an asteroid or comet striking the Earth, well then, after thousands of years, the dust settled. Or in the case of volcanic activity, eventually that would, yes, naturally settle down, but still recovery is measured in hundreds to thousands of years.

    As fragile humans, we do not have that kind of time. Are you willing to suggest that the next 5 to 50 or more generations of your family living in misery is something that is ok? Not to cause a panic, just simply saying, that whether this time or something else, man will eventually face a potentially devastating climate change. The knowledge that Earth might recover if the event is natural is no comfort.

    I suggest that one remembers this fact the next time that you wish to raise Earth's "magical" ability to recover. As humans, we don't have hundreds to thousands of years for solutions.

    The only discussion to be had is when and how we do something. If anything at all.

    Cheers! I'm sure you're glad to see me! lol
    I admire you of the effort you have done, to explain how it all works...… But, you never mention the climate change we are getting from spraying our skies, for whatever reason. Its affecting our climate, but why isn't it mentioned by you ??

    Roy
    A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
    Lysander Spooner

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    I admire you of the effort you have done, to explain how it all works...… But, you never mention the climate change we are getting from spraying our skies, for whatever reason. Its affecting our climate, but why isn't it mentioned by you ??

    Roy
    What spraying of our skies are you referring to?

    When, where, what, why and by who?

  3. #16
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    Well, you know me, Roy. I stay in the realm of peer reviewed white papers as much as possible. I can't honestly say that I have encountered any discussion along those lines; at least not so far.

    So, I ask the same questions as Lahrs.

    Are we sill having problems with the like button?
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    What spraying of our skies are you referring to?

    When, where, what, why and by who?
    https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/what...they-spraying/

    Roy
    A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
    Lysander Spooner

  5. #18
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  6. Likes Fender60 liked this post
  7. #19
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    I was afraid it would be one of these.

    Sorry, Roy, you know I respect you, but yeah... not exactly science.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

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