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  1. #3368
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I don't watch MsM or any politically motivated tv or radio shows.
    Light bulb mandates:
    EISA (Energy Independence and Security Act) would have required everyday light bulbs to use 65 percent less energy than the traditional incandescent light bulbs, but still deliver the same amount of light. By those standards, consumers would not be able to purchase much more than LED or fluorescent light bulbs.

    GA quote: Spoken by someone that does not understand free markets.

    Not based on your understanding or interpretation doesn't equate to me not understanding. I think you need a good dose of history.
    Another more historically accurate definition of "Free Market System" might be "Free to have their way with us." That would be more historically accurate.

    But the powers have taught you well. Many Americans are the lap dogs of capitalists. To the point of obeying their masters while thrown a cookie. Just based on the distribution of wealth should be enough to raise a flag for the true believers.
    Your getting $crewed but are content for your dog biscuit
    .
    I'm not quite sure what you're saying here? Are you advocating Socialism?

  2. #3369
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I don't watch MsM or any politically motivated tv or radio shows.
    Light bulb mandates:
    EISA (Energy Independence and Security Act) would have required everyday light bulbs to use 65 percent less energy than the traditional incandescent light bulbs, but still deliver the same amount of light. By those standards, consumers would not be able to purchase much more than LED or fluorescent light bulbs.

    GA quote: Spoken by someone that does not understand free markets.

    Not based on your understanding or interpretation doesn't equate to me not understanding. I think you need a good dose of history.
    Another more historically accurate definition of "Free Market System" might be "Free to have their way with us." That would be more historically accurate.

    But the powers have taught you well. Many Americans are the lap dogs of capitalists. To the point of obeying their masters while thrown a cookie. Just based on the distribution of wealth should be enough to raise a flag for the true believers.
    Your getting $crewed but are content for your dog biscuit.
    Your not confusing greed with capitalism are you? Once upon a time, when people still had integrity the bank manager made just a few dollars more than the teller, the factory manager made just a small % more than the production worker. then greed came in and now managers make 100 times or more of the average wage earner at the company. That' greed disguised as capitalism.

  3. #3370
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Your not confusing greed with capitalism are you? Once upon a time, when people still had integrity the bank manager made just a few dollars more than the teller, the factory manager made just a small % more than the production worker. then greed came in and now managers make 100 times or more of the average wage earner at the company. That' greed disguised as capitalism.

    Ordinary people aren't capitalists. Owning a business or participating at some level won't qualify. Greed is a human characteristic and there can be a very real division between how a person conducts their life and how a corporate decision is made. Some corporates could be more altruistic while others might $crew everyone they can.
    A capitalist is an entity that has control over the means of production as opposed to communism where the system has complete control or to a lesser degree socialism whose control depends on the system.
    As for your example: In business there are basic reasons to pay more. To keep good help, to address a labor shortage ( compete for labor) to forestall a revolution (USA 1890-1950) A fortune was spent on anti-communist information or propaganda depending on who was listening.

    Today's CEO's have a question to answer. Collusion. In this level of business the industries are watched by the Gov. If prices are raised by all that make an item or supply a raw material together, that might be collusion and is illegal. The CEO's will say they have no control over what their company pays them. Do CEO's conclude to force higher paychecks?
    Do athletes? Movie stars? Or is the world just nuts?
    The Hopi have a word for this that roughly translates "World out of balance". The only probable reason ordinary people tolerate wealth disparity is they think it could be them making all the money. Otherwise there would be more aggressive means to re-distribute wealth. Any day now the wealth will belong to 1%.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  4. #3371
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    I'm not quite sure what you're saying here? Are you advocating Socialism?
    No. I don't see socialism being acceptable in the US. We are too independent and willing to stand on our own. For now. But as more people look for a hand out these systems might have a larger following. I can listen to the younger generation wanting more freebies w/o the economic understanding of paying the bills. I more likely think they know better but are turning a blind eye. Get rid of student loans and a lot of this would disappear.

    Many Americans think capitalism is good. BUT we haven't been a capitalist economy, in the pure sense of the word, for a long time. That system proved to be an enslavement of people. Without restraints it would happen again.
    Capitalists are too dangerous to be left unattended. If they misbehave, send them to their room.
    Instead of a pedigree I prefer a mutt.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  5. #3372
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Ordinary people aren't capitalists. Owning a business or participating at some level won't qualify. Greed is a human characteristic and there can be a very real division between how a person conducts their life and how a corporate decision is made. Some corporates could be more altruistic while others might $crew everyone they can.
    A capitalist is an entity that has control over the means of production as opposed to communism where the system has complete control or to a lesser degree socialism whose control depends on the system.
    As for your example: In business there are basic reasons to pay more. To keep good help, to address a labor shortage ( compete for labor) to forestall a revolution (USA 1890-1950) A fortune was spent on anti-communist information or propaganda depending on who was listening.

    Today's CEO's have a question to answer. Collusion. In this level of business the industries are watched by the Gov. If prices are raised by all that make an item or supply a raw material together, that might be collusion and is illegal. The CEO's will say they have no control over what their company pays them. Do CEO's conclude to force higher paychecks?
    Do athletes? Movie stars? Or is the world just nuts?
    The Hopi have a word for this that roughly translates "World out of balance". The only probable reason ordinary people tolerate wealth disparity is they think it could be them making all the money. Otherwise there would be more aggressive means to re-distribute wealth. Any day now the wealth will belong to 1%.
    AKA price fixing. Illegal.
    Last edited by vin lashon; 11-15-2019 at 07:19 PM.

  6. #3373
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    No. I don't see socialism being acceptable in the US. We are too independent and willing to stand on our own. For now. But as more people look for a hand out these systems might have a larger following. I can listen to the younger generation wanting more freebies w/o the economic understanding of paying the bills. I more likely think they know better but are turning a blind eye. Get rid of student loans and a lot of this would disappear.

    Many Americans think capitalism is good. BUT we haven't been a capitalist economy, in the pure sense of the word, for a long time. That system proved to be an enslavement of people. Without restraints it would happen again.
    Capitalists are too dangerous to be left unattended. If they misbehave, send them to their room.
    Instead of a pedigree I prefer a mutt.
    Getting rid of student loans would have consequences. One would hope that "free college education" would elevate the nation, the economy and the culture. I think just the opposite would occur. Human nature will generally regard free 'anything' as valueless, particularly amongst Americans and particularly amongst today's college age and younger Americans. They will have no appreciation for the fact that they are getting a free education, they they should put forth their best effort to receive full value. Instead, many will go just through the motions. Yes, I know we see that now, and that parent's mostly foot the bill, but the notion that it's an 'entitlement' will change perspective. I believe the net result will be that not only is there no gain for the students, economy or the nation by giving away college education, but we will experience a decline.

  7. #3374
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    Getting rid of student loans would have consequences. One would hope that "free college education" would elevate the nation, the economy and the culture. I think just the opposite would occur. Human nature will generally regard free 'anything' as valueless, particularly amongst Americans and particularly amongst today's college age and younger Americans. They will have no appreciation for the fact that they are getting a free education, they they should put forth their best effort to receive full value. Instead, many will go just through the motions. Yes, I know we see that now, and that parent's mostly foot the bill, but the notion that it's an 'entitlement' will change perspective. I believe the net result will be that not only is there no gain for the students, economy or the nation by giving away college education, but we will experience a decline.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  8. #3375
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    It would appear that your rocket ship has run out of fuel.
    It is more ridiculous to say there was a creator. Who created the creator? A creator is just a dumb excuse for not saying I don't know. An infinite chain of alien ships is a sound model, since it is really infinite there was no begining and nobody created the first alien.

  9. #3376
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    It is more ridiculous to say there was a creator. Who created the creator? A creator is just a dumb excuse for not saying I don't know. An infinite chain of alien ships is a sound model, since it is really infinite there was no begining and nobody created the first alien.
    If you're right..congratulations. If not, better buy some fire booties.

  10. #3377
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    Like I said prior, your rocket ship ran out of fuel.

    Try as you might, you are not able to succeed.




    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    It is more ridiculous to say there was a creator. Who created the creator? A creator is just a dumb excuse for not saying I don't know. An infinite chain of alien ships is a sound model, since it is really infinite there was no begining and nobody created the first alien.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  11. Likes vin lashon liked this post.
  12. #3378
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    A creator is just a dumb excuse for not saying I don't know.
    Saying "I don't know" is the first step to knowledge and wisdom.

    Besides, you sound like GA, in that, you seem to be afraid of something. What is your fear? Do you fear that acknowledging the possibility of a creator will somehow damage or poison you?

    As you can tell from the little icon on the top left of my post there, I am hardly what most would call a believer despite allowing for creator under certain circumstances. But here's the thing; the following attributes are NOT required for a creator to create; that he, she or it be supernatural, benevolent, all-knowing, or even aware of our existence. A being without those things is still perfectly able to create.

    In other words, just because I might allow for the consideration of a creator under certain circumstances does not mean that I am climbing on board with most Earthly believers.

    I believe that the reverse concept should work for those believers in that, science is only exploring what God has done. No matter how well we explain things or define them, that fact does NOT (should not anyway) harm your view of God's work. Why should it? Even if we find out exactly how the Big Bang began, so what? You can always still say that it's God's work, regardless of how well we understand a thing.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

  13. #3379
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Saying "I don't know" is the first step to knowledge and wisdom.

    Besides, you sound like GA, in that, you seem to be afraid of something. What is your fear? Do you fear that acknowledging the possibility of a creator will somehow damage or poison you?

    As you can tell from the little icon on the top left of my post there, I am hardly what most would call a believer despite allowing for creator under certain circumstances. But here's the thing; the following attributes are NOT required for a creator to create; that he, she or it be supernatural, benevolent, all-knowing, or even aware of our existence. A being without those things is still perfectly able to create.

    In other words, just because I might allow for the consideration of a creator under certain circumstances does not mean that I am climbing on board with most Earthly believers.

    I believe that the reverse concept should work for those believers in that, science is only exploring what God has done. No matter how well we explain things or define them, that fact does NOT (should not anyway) harm your view of God's work. Why should it? Even if we find out exactly how the Big Bang began, so what? You can always still say that it's God's work, regardless of how well we understand a thing.
    I can't say I agree with your list of 'attributes' or the conclusions you draw, but one indisputable fact that's missing is that the absence of one's belief in God the Creator is incidental to the reality.

  14. #3380
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    Would that be a question of the attitude to education? Maybe we push too many people into the "you have to have a college education to amount to anything" mindset? Some people aren't meant for higher education (I'm one of them - I had a hard time with it), but the "free" education seems to work pretty well in many other countries.
    Getting a sort of baseline education for free would hopefully bring critical thinking skills, above average reading and writing skills and other basics that would make everyone that much easier to employ (to your point of elevating everyone/everything).

    I'd like to see a ... test run, maybe? We'll fund everyone's 4 years of college if they get a 3.0 GPA or more. Run that for 10 years and see if we can track a positive change with it. If not, stop the program. If we do, then make it permanent (along with improvements we find along the way).



    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    One would hope that "free college education" would elevate the nation, the economy and the culture. I think just the opposite would occur. Human nature will generally regard free 'anything' as valueless, particularly amongst Americans and particularly amongst today's college age and younger Americans. They will have no appreciation for the fact that they are getting a free education, they they should put forth their best effort to receive full value. Instead, many will go just through the motions. Yes, I know we see that now, and that parent's mostly foot the bill, but the notion that it's an 'entitlement' will change perspective. I believe the net result will be that not only is there no gain for the students, economy or the nation by giving away college education, but we will experience a decline.

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