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  1. #3355
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    It seems that this has been brought up in this thread before but I guess is one reason I don't believe man will/can destroy this planet. Jesus said he will return "lest no flesh be left alive"! If you believe in God how can you believe any different.

    Who's God. The God theory has probably more interpretations than there are libraries to hold them.
    A good atheist might believe the Earth should be taken care of regardless of views on God.
    But an interesting point about how some believe we got here. The mess that was and is being created on Earth has it's roots in Christianity I'm told.
    Seems Christians were taught the future wasn't here but in a place called heaven.This is just a place to maintain a temporary holding pattern where (if you pass the tests) you will find transport to your forever home so don't be too concerned about house keeping.


    Now, that is not to say that we should trash the planet either. We are to be good stewards of God's creation. The question then becomes where do you draw the line? At what point are we living abundantly and at what point have we gone to far? I don't believe that FF is as bad as has been reported but I also don't think all the pollution, especially all the plastics made from oil, are good and will be/are far worse than the FF we burn in the long run.
    My quote, their God is too small was actually gleaned from a book "Your God Is Too Small" the title of a book you might be interested in. Concerning God, people could get the unabridged version if so inclined.
    It's Christmas time so now people can buy more stuff of questionable need and add more trash to the planet. Ho Ho Ho. Feast of Saturnalia The pagans won. Pantastic.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  2. #3356
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Not my recollection but I didn't memorize the events on point.
    A lot of influence (pressure) to get rid of incandescent bulbs, better gas millage and efficient furnaces by people that study stuff like that. Power companies not wanting to invest in infrastructure they didn't need to.
    Old type light bulbs are gone thru gov mandates so that's something that wasn't left up to the free market. They benefited anyway.

    Old style lights went away when NEW and MORE efficient lightbulbs were available...
    The invention of the new bulbs was NOT a govt mandate...


    If left up to what is erroneous referred to the "free market" we wouldn't be free. Free market capitalists wouldn't have any use for freedom outside of their freedom to have their way with us as they have historically done.

    Spoken by someone that does not understand free markets.

    I wish our liberal (so I keep being told) education system would teach labor history with the same enthusiasm that the railroad and steel barons are. If labor history is taught at all.

    I wish we would teach civics again...
    A significant number of people do not even know what the 3 branches of the federal govt are...
    Is that progress???


    The power companies are an interesting anomaly. Normal companies want to sell more stuff. But to sell more juice the utilities would need to spent a bunch. At the same time, being a monopoly, have to guaranty investor returns. A Catch 22 sequel.
    There probably would have been a lot of street protests concerning building nukes or increasing FF use by expanding FF generation. "So lets cut consumption and just raise prices. We can do that." my head imagines a board room conservation.

    Someday I will convince myself to bring up the corporate mindset. Persona non Grata.
    Someone has had too much of a diet of MsM news...
    Their mind is polluted!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  3. #3357
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    But those things you posted contain their own disqualifiers plainly displayed in the text.

    I tried to cut and paste or highlight them but I couldn't find a way to do that.

    They point out that there are 'other factors', including biased sampling sites for single example, as the data sources.

    PHM
    --------



    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    That's one big paragraph with a variety of thoughts. Difficult for me to dissect it, but I'll do my best...

    No idea what you're talking about with some supposed event that you think may have happened in regard to the IPCC. If you could be specific in your claim, I may be able to be convinced. But as a proxy response, the datasets used by ACCA and ASHRAE are also used in IPCC reports. So, I'm a little suspicious about your vague claim.

    I'm still not sure why you would choose degree days over average temperature, but ok. Let's go down that path. I'm afraid I'll be using ASHRAE report, rather than ACCA, due to availability. If you could link to something with similar detail from ACCA, we can take it from there. Though, I think they both use/collaborate on reports using the same dataset.

    I have attached 2 screenshots from this report (sorry for low resolution pics, Tapatalk has recently changed handling of pics in an effort to promote users to upgrade to premium account): http://arco-hvac.ir/wp-content/uploa...4_Climates.pdf

    Cliff notes: As per ASHRAE, it's getting warming. Climate change is real.

    I'm not sure what comes up for you in regard to my provided link about degree days. But it comes up with yearly increments for me, not just 50 years as you allude to. See attached pic, which indicates global warming is in fact occuring.

    https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicato...ng-degree-days

    Hope that clears up your misunderstanding of the realities of climate change... again.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  4. #3358
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    They have already done it. Or at least pretty well shown that is no other viable explanation.

    Oh wait - I guess they actually say something more like 'intelligent design'. Which allows for the idea that God was some more advanced civilization who brewed up the cosmic soup for us.

    Neil Degrase is one of the physicists but the names of the Mathematicians escape me right this minute.

    Nonetheless; in combination they express the fact that random-chance type evolution has not has the time in which to explain the existence of the higher animals.

    One of the problems with pure evolution as an explanation is that for it to have worked ALL the early-on mutations have to be accurate/positive. The vast majority of all mutations result in over-growth cancers, or other conflicts which are deadly to the organism. The vast majority of all mutations are failures. And so the early-on, major-decision, work All has to be correct: how many organs and bones and joints for example - in order for there ever be a being which can mutate further to produce the smaller details such as how long eyelashes grow.

    It is mathematically impossible for it to have occurred by an huge long series of the much rarer positive mutations to manifest.

    Beyond that: in genetic structure analysis the emerging patterns are both so complex And so similar to the patterns designed into complex computing structure that the question has be be asked: As the mandatory computing designs pre-dated the genetic realties being only now, much later, mapped - how likely is it that random chance evolution and focused intelligent design came to the same exact logic of structure?

    Now I agree: there is no video evidence proving God's existence - there is some pretty darned powerful scientific evidence. <g>

    PHM
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    . . . . Will science someday prove the existence of God? . . . .
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #3359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    But those things you posted contain their own disqualifiers plainly displayed in the text.

    I tried to cut and paste or highlight them but I couldn't find a way to do that.

    They point out that there are 'other factors', including biased sampling sites for single example, as the data sources.

    PHM
    --------
    I left that there on purpose. It was an 'easter egg' to spur further discussion and to see how many people actually read what is posted. Congratulations on being the only one.

    (Side note: I couldn't get the PDF to copy/paste either. Tried a number of different programs. Posting text would have highlighted it better.)

    Of course, I've already researched the affects of heat islands on temperature records. Plus the different methods used to measure temp and compare between them. It's not just thermistors!!

    Not my favourite source, but as previously mentioned, I'm too short on time to sift for a better link: https://skepticalscience.com/urban-h...and-effect.htm

    Problem with many, they latch on to the tiniest of things that they think supports their opinion. Yet, refuse to look at the glaring obvious.

  6. #3360
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    Don't forget, evolution can only occur AFTER life exists. The real question is: How did the first life come to be. So that it could evolve into what we have today?

    GC likes to say aliens. But that just begs the question, where did THAT life first originate or come to be?


    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    They have already done it. Or at least pretty well shown that is no other viable explanation.

    Oh wait - I guess they actually say something more like 'intelligent design'. Which allows for the idea that God was some more advanced civilization who brewed up the cosmic soup for us.

    Neil Degrase is one of the physicists but the names of the Mathematicians escape me right this minute.

    Nonetheless; in combination they express the fact that random-chance type evolution has not has the time in which to explain the existence of the higher animals.

    One of the problems with pure evolution as an explanation is that for it to have worked ALL the early-on mutations have to be accurate/positive. The vast majority of all mutations result in over-growth cancers, or other conflicts which are deadly to the organism. The vast majority of all mutations are failures. And so the early-on, major-decision, work All has to be correct: how many organs and bones and joints for example - in order for there ever be a being which can mutate further to produce the smaller details such as how long eyelashes grow.

    It is mathematically impossible for it to have occurred by an huge long series of the much rarer positive mutations to manifest.

    Beyond that: in genetic structure analysis the emerging patterns are both so complex And so similar to the patterns designed into complex computing structure that the question has be be asked: As the mandatory computing designs pre-dated the genetic realties being only now, much later, mapped - how likely is it that random chance evolution and focused intelligent design came to the same exact logic of structure?

    Now I agree: there is no video evidence proving God's existence - there is some pretty darned powerful scientific evidence. <g>

    PHM
    ---------
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  7. #3361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Nonetheless; in combination they express the fact that random-chance type evolution has not has the time in which to explain the existence of the higher animals.
    We should probably start a whole new evolution topic; what the heck? Been a while.

    Mikey, I respect the heck out of you. You are a very intelligent person and by your posts that comes through.

    However, I'm sorry to have to say that you have fallen in to a trap that many fall in to. You have, number one, confused what fact and theory are, and number two, attempted to somehow refute an observation (that being evolution), with a refutation of an explanation of the observation. I can only hope that made sense.

    To paraphrase Steve Gould; facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. As I believe I mentioned somewhere earlier, Newton's theory was replaced with Einstein's, but nothing at all happened to apples falling to the ground.

    According to the Scientific Method, science is 'kicked off' when someone makes an observation and then gets curious about it. The most famous observation of all scientific time was of course Newton seeing apples fall. So there can be nothing that is "only a theory", because without an observation, or 'fact' if you will, there is nothing to explain. There is nothing to construct a theory about.

    So, let's talk about the observation(s) that tell us that evolution has indeed occurred.

    The first thing that we know is that life comes from other life. Except for how life first got here. From then on, life has come from other life. Even in the bible, where strange and mystical things happen, no one suggests that anyone has ever seen life simply pop in out of thin air, so according to that very well established precedent; all life comes from other life. Even Jesus had to be born.

    The second thing that we know is that when we dig in to the Earth, we find things that are older than today. Not only that, but when we dig down even further, things get older and older. We see this with the regression of language and tools. Well then, using that well-established precedent, we see that the oldest life form was a very simple form of life.

    So, we put those two things that we know together. IF all life comes from other life and IF the oldest life form upon the Earth was a very simple one and now we're here; well then. There is simply no other logical place to go. By theorizing that there wasn't sufficient time for this or that is irrelevant to the idea of evolution as a fact, but still very relevant to science and the explanation (or theory).

    The point is, by both examples, that facts don't change when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Moreover, facts are not necessarily absolute, they only have so much precedent that one would have to be obtuse indeed to not consider them facts. Still, for all we know, apples might start to rise tomorrow.

    It is simply that we don't spend a lot of time talking about that possibility in Physics class.
    Last edited by scrogdog; 11-14-2019 at 01:00 AM. Reason: typos and clarity (as usual)
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

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  9. #3362
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Don't forget, evolution can only occur AFTER life exists. The real question is: How did the first life come to be. So that it could evolve into what we have today?

    GC likes to say aliens. But that just begs the question, where did THAT life first originate or come to be?
    thats an easy question.... as the Earth was uninhabited an alien ship flushed their toilet while they passed by... and so their poo developed into BBeerme

  10. #3363
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    thats an easy question.... as the Earth was uninhabited an alien ship flushed their toilet while they passed by... and so their poo developed into BBeerme
    How did that alien life get created?
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  11. #3364
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    Well, I should have acknowledged this earlier, my apologies, but Beer is entirely correct. In terms of how life evolved on this planet, how the first life form actually got here is irrelevant. If one wants to say aliens, fine. The hand of God, Fine. Combustion of elements, fine. It doesn't matter in this conversation.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

  12. #3365
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    How did that alien life get created?
    when their planet was uninhabited another alien ship passed by and flushed the toilet and their poo developed into the aliens that passed by Earth later on

  13. #3366
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    when their planet was uninhabited another alien ship passed by and flushed the toilet and their poo developed into the aliens that passed by Earth later on
    It would appear that your rocket ship has run out of fuel.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  14. #3367
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Someone has had too much of a diet of MsM news...
    Their mind is polluted!
    I don't watch MsM or any politically motivated tv or radio shows.
    Light bulb mandates:
    EISA (Energy Independence and Security Act) would have required everyday light bulbs to use 65 percent less energy than the traditional incandescent light bulbs, but still deliver the same amount of light. By those standards, consumers would not be able to purchase much more than LED or fluorescent light bulbs.

    GA quote: Spoken by someone that does not understand free markets.

    Not based on your understanding or interpretation doesn't equate to me not understanding. I think you need a good dose of history.
    Another more historically accurate definition of "Free Market System" might be "Free to have their way with us." That would be more historically accurate.

    But the powers have taught you well. Many Americans are the lap dogs of capitalists. To the point of obeying their masters while thrown a cookie. Just based on the distribution of wealth should be enough to raise a flag for the true believers.
    Your getting $crewed but are content for your dog biscuit.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

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