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  1. #3901
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    With global attention currently focused on CV, it's easy to forget about our other problems. But of course, they haven't gone away. Though emissions have measurably reduced during this pandemic, in part due to less manufacturing and transportation activity, MMCC is still happening. We still need to limit our affect on the planet and/or adapt to the changes that are already presenting themselves and those to come.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...-change-148318

    https://globalnews.ca/news/6717761/p...e-coronavirus/

  2. #3902
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    [Cross reference to COVID - 19 thread. Moved here to limit disrupting that thread.]

    "The green crowd refuses to admit solar flare activity has an effect on earth's climate."

    But of course, this statement is a pile of poo. Telling someone what they believe and then expect them to defend it is an all too common tactic of an... mmm... how do I put this delicately... sufferer of logical fallacitis.

    Obviously the sun has an affect on Earth. Hell, the very definition of global warming references the sun. "Global warming occurs when carbon dioxide (CO2) and other air pollutants and greenhouse gases collect in the atmosphere and absorb sunlight and solar radiation that have bounced off the earth's surface."

    So, for some science illiterate to try and put words into the mouths of people who they most certainly doesn't speak for is dishonest.

    Gander, here is some goose... Prove that 'solar flares' is the ONLY thing that affects Earths climate. Verifiable documented facts please. Sorry, if you are going to make wild ass claims, then YOU need to back it up.

    (Obviously we all know there is zero chance Gander will actually back up his claims, best case scenario, we get some obscure link that he refuses to explain further. If past experience is anything to go by, Ganders links don't even say what he thinks they say. Pious hypocrite. I'm not convinced he even knows the difference between sunspots and solar flares.)

  3. #3903
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    Not sure anything that what man does has much effect on what the climate does. The weather has never been the same on earth since it was made. In the 80's we were going to feeeze. We still found sea shells on the top of mountains.
    Blue Fox

  4. #3904
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    Quote Originally Posted by lentz View Post
    Not sure anything that what man does has much effect on what the climate does. The weather has never been the same on earth since it was made. In the 80's we were going to feeeze. We still found sea shells on the top of mountains.
    In the 80s we were going to freeze? That's an interesting position to take.

    Please consider starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

    "Global cooling was a conjecture, especially during the 1970s, of imminent cooling of the Earth culminating in a period of extensive glaciation, due to the cooling effects of aerosols and orbital forcing. Some press reports in the 1970s speculated about continued cooling; these did not accurately reflect the scientific literature of the time, which was generally more concerned with warming from an enhanced greenhouse effect."

    Basically, the scientists that predicted global cooling were the ones that didn't allow for MMCC in their modelling. Them being wrong, in fact, strengthens the argument that MMCC is true.

    For a more professional source of information, with an explanation of important climate concepts, please read this: https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/n...-isnt-cooling/

  5. #3905
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    Unfortunately, in the case of modelling used to predict CV outcomes, it will take a post-mortem to determine their accuracy. Fortunately, decades of climate research can already be reviewed... so far so good. The biggest variable on the accuracy of any future climate predictions is how we react to our current situation. I hope they are completely wrong!
    .....

    There’s an old saying that “the proof is in the pudding,” meaning that you can only truly gauge the quality of something once it’s been put to a test. Such is the case with climate models: mathematical computer simulations of the various factors that interact to affect Earth’s climate, such as our atmosphere, ocean, ice, land surface and the Sun.

    For decades, people have legitimately wondered how well climate models perform in predicting future climate conditions. Based on solid physics and the best understanding of the Earth system available, they skillfully reproduce observed data. Nevertheless, they have a wide response to increasing carbon dioxide levels, and many uncertainties remain in the details. The hallmark of good science, however, is the ability to make testable predictions, and climate models have been making predictions since the 1970s. How reliable have they been?

    Now a new evaluation of global climate models used to project Earth’s future global average surface temperatures over the past half-century answers that question: most of the models have been quite accurate.
    .....


    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/s...ections-right/

  6. #3906
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    Remember that time we were all worried about a measly 2 deg C temp rise by 2100? Man, hope when can get back to that 'easier' problem sooner than later.

    ......
    When it comes to climate change, the relentless rise in global temperatures is but one harbinger of what is to come, and what is already happening all around. Fires burn brighter, longer and more often. Tropical cyclones grow stronger. There are more extreme heat days causing immense costs in lives and livelihoods alike. These weather extremes, meanwhile, are nothing compared to the consequences of a planet warmed by another degree or two Celsius. That, of course, is precisely why climate change is such a difficult problem to wrap our minds around and, ultimately, to address. The worst is yet to come—decades or even centuries hence.

    COVID-19, by comparison, operates on an extremely compressed timescale. Decades are days, centuries are weeks. Political decisions from February—or the lack thereof—affect lives this month. Last week’s decisions affect this week’s case count. People are dying today, and many more will do so literally tomorrow.

    https://time.com/5813778/coronavirus-climate-success/

    ......

  7. #3907
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    Man made part of climate change has been solved and it took a pandemic to get it done. 90% or more of the cars are now off the roads and sit parked. Big reductions in what we put into the atmosphere. And, the need for oil is dropped so the energy problem is solved at the same time.

    And, it could be that the CV will also solve the overpopulation problem that so many claim exists. Gee, you evolutionists ought to be singing the praises of seeing "Survival Of The Fittest" at work.

    CV is a solution not a problem! Don't fight mother nature. Let mother nature do her job.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

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  9. #3908
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    I'm not worried about the C-19's potential damage one hundredth as much I am deeply concerned about the damage the cure-attempts are actually producing.

    PHM
    ---------


    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Man made part of climate change has been solved and it took a pandemic to get it done. 90% or more of the cars are now off the roads and sit parked. Big reductions in what we put into the atmosphere. And, the need for oil is dropped so the energy problem is solved at the same time.

    And, it could be that the CV will also solve the overpopulation problem that so many claim exists. Gee, you evolutionists ought to be singing the praises of seeing "Survival Of The Fittest" at work.

    CV is a solution not a problem! Don't fight mother nature. Let mother nature do her job.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

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  11. #3909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I'm not worried about the C-19's potential damage one hundredth as much I am deeply concerned about the damage the cure-attempts are actually producing.

    PHM
    ---------
    Yup, the so called cure is going to be worse than the disease. Could be the plan from the start.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

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  13. #3910
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    I firmly believe The Left and main stream media are tickled pink. Anything they can do to make Trump look bad.

    On a bit of a tangent . . . Our intelligence community knew about the Wuhan Pneumonia (that's what China initially called it) early on. And they give our President daily briefings. Who leads the intelligence comity? Adam Schiff. What was Schiff doing when all of this broke out in China? Trying to take down our president.

    So, couldn't it be said that Schiff was derelict in his duties? At a minimum, he was doing everything he could to keep the President from doing his job. And now he wants to investigate the President for not doing his job. Seriously?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Yup, the so called cure is going to be worse than the disease. Could be the plan from the start.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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  15. #3911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Man made part of climate change has been solved and it took a pandemic to get it done. 90% or more of the cars are now off the roads and sit parked. Big reductions in what we put into the atmosphere. And, the need for oil is dropped so the energy problem is solved at the same time.

    And, it could be that the CV will also solve the overpopulation problem that so many claim exists. Gee, you evolutionists ought to be singing the praises of seeing "Survival Of The Fittest" at work.

    CV is a solution not a problem! Don't fight mother nature. Let mother nature do her job.
    Is not this CV thing an evolutionary event happening before our very eyes? https://www.genengnews.com/news/coro...c-study-shows/

    Our response to it is yet another example of how us humans shape the world around us. Though 'mother nature' will ultimately win, we have been fighting her since we developed the use of tools and fire. Damming rivers, clearing forests and yes, altering the atmosphere and therefore Earths climate. So on this, we agree. Let's stop fighting with 'mother nature'. https://creationcare.org/

    Though I gather your post is tongue-in-cheek, CV is a 'solution' that no one wants. But our response to it does give hope to what can be achieved given enough incentive. Unfortunately, most here don't care about the future. Only what affects us now. The problem that is MMCC, just keeps getting kicked down the road...

  16. #3912
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    I have told a few co-workers to theoretically measure the exhaust temps of every single vehicle(then multiply them) , then add in gas hot water and furnace temps and then as a bonus...how many massive billions of btus in heat coming from industrial properties and rockets launched....there is your answer iIMHO!

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  18. #3913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited1 View Post
    I have told a few co-workers to theoretically measure the exhaust temps of every single vehicle(then multiply them) , then add in gas hot water and furnace temps and then as a bonus...how many massive billions of btus in heat coming from industrial properties and rockets launched....there is your answer iIMHO!
    What you are describing is 'waste heat'. It only represents 1% of the forces causing global warming. Where waste heat is more pronounced is the 'heat island effect' that can be observed around urban/industrial areas.

    A long time ago when I started on the path of CC enlightenment, I too thought this global warming hoopla was all about waste heat and it was a crock. I was wrong! Even did some calculations at the time of what temp rise would result from our use of FFs. Admittedly with alot of assumptions (eg. what percent of energy produced ended up as thermal), it would take ~100 years to raise Earths atmosphere 1C... Now, this number is totally flawed! For starters, not all of that thermal energy remains in the atmosphere. A significant portion is absorbed by the ocean, along with other losses. But what it did illustrate to me, there was more going on!

    Anyway, the point is, waste heat is not what MMCC is all about. If it was, we wouldn't give a hoot about CO2. But we do for 2 primary reasons, acidification of the oceans and an increase in the greenhouse affect (radiative forcing). Both of which are natural phenomena! Nothing magic is happening. Our CO2 (and other emissions, but lets keep it simple), is just 'enhancing' what already happens. Unfortunately, human society as a whole is not prepared to limit our effect on the planet, or preemptively adapt to the changes we are already seeing and the increasingly rapid changes coming our way.

    Reference: http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/tss/ahf/
    https://skepticalscience.net/pdf/reb...termediate.pdf

    Contrarian view of the topic, for argument sake : https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/...-once-thought/

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