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  1. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    there are two types of deniers btw:

    type #1: co2 increase in the atmosphere has nothing to do with us, it is some natural process

    type #2: co2 is increasing and we caused it but hey it is just 0.04%, it is a trace gas and good for plants and has nothing to do with temperature increase

    (not sure if there is type #0 too... "co2 is not increasing at all" ? )

    #1 has been disproved by tons of scientific arguments, e.g. the isotope composition of the CO2 (it is changing and indicates fossil source), also O2 content falling (so it is combustion) etc

    #2 is bit more difficult, but hey we should keep trying
    Or this. It sounds as though you're quoting AOC. Or Obama. Or Pelosi. You're damaging your argument.

  2. #145
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    I just assume climate change is real and people are the cause because clean air and water are just no-brainers. When somebody says they don't believe in climate change and it is all a scam I just swap those words out in my brain with "I hate clean air and water". Really what are the arguments against going along with believing in it? It always comes down to money and nobody ever wants to be the one that has to pay a few dollars more to make the world a better place they just want to leave it up to someone else to deal with at some other time. Well as someone that lives in a town dealing with radioactive material left buried by previous generations the bill to clean things up later is always much higher than dealing with things now. So stop arguing the science (which by the way is more credible on the climate change is real side) and start pretending you believe it and the worst that will happen is you make the world a little bit better for the kids coming up behind us.

  3. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sooty View Post
    I just assume climate change is real and people are the cause because clean air and water are just no-brainers. When somebody says they don't believe in climate change and it is all a scam I just swap those words out in my brain with "I hate clean air and water". Really what are the arguments against going along with believing in it? It always comes down to money and nobody ever wants to be the one that has to pay a few dollars more to make the world a better place they just want to leave it up to someone else to deal with at some other time. Well as someone that lives in a town dealing with radioactive material left buried by previous generations the bill to clean things up later is always much higher than dealing with things now. So stop arguing the science (which by the way is more credible on the climate change is real side) and start pretending you believe it and the worst that will happen is you make the world a little bit better for the kids coming up behind us.
    Facts not in evidence.

  4. #147
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    Sooty good common sense!

    in fact, exploiting fossil resources already does significant damage to the planet, even before you burn this stuff. Did you ever visit a brown coal mine? How much damage it is doing to ground water levels? Same for fracking etc. And all the incidents with oil tankers and so on... imagine a world without all that stuff!

    in my opinion there should be a new law: you can use fossil fuels but only to create infrastructure to produce (alternative) energy. So, using them to build a solar plant would be ok but just burning in a car for fun not.

  5. #148
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  6. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    hard to argue against this huge pile of BS.... did you ever take a look at statistics for skin cancer from e.g. Australia? Now you will say it is a conspiracy theory and it is caused by additives in sun cream put there by industry to make more money and has nothing to do with ozone hole... really nothing. Ask a chemist about photo-dissociation of CFCs!

    folks I'm really loosing my hope for America... with these widespread gaps in education it is hopeless to discuss it further.
    Pardon me for being a bit cynical...

    However America (the USA) and the world...
    Will get along just fine WITHOUT your hope...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  7. #150
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    He already shot his wad.

    He's got nothing left.


    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Pardon me for being a bit cynical...

    However America (the USA) and the world...
    Will get along just fine WITHOUT your hope...
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  8. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavhorna View Post
    really? You have a proof? The whole Moon landing thing was recorded in some Nevada studio and the Moon rocks were fabricated by NASA scientists.
    Hey...

    Do you want a link to a seller of tin-foil hats...

    Get real Gus...
    If that was not so pathetic...
    It would be laughable!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  9. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    What was all the reasons for past climate change?
    Mother/Father Nature being her/him self...

    Yeah, I know... too simple for the pseudo intellectuals...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  10. #153
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    Lahrs called this a useless dance and maybe it is. I first ran into this CC situation in a class on geography in college. My text was printed about 1970 so this information is far from new.
    I once posted that scientists were questioning CO2's effect after WW2. They thought the increased military production should have an effect on the % of CO2 in the atmosphere. Their measurements said yes it did increase. But not anywhere like it is today. Oddly at that time CO2 also leveled out around the mid 50's but w/o any solid answer as to why.
    Possibly the planet could process an increaseof some other unknown process is working.

    Most don't know the science behind why certain molecules create a warmer atmosphere.
    CO2 isn't alone. Methane, NO2, water vapor, basically any molecule that isn't a simple structure like O2, N2, etc.
    What happens is complex molecules like CO2 have more kinetic energy when heated. When a simple molecule is heated it travels more or less straight but a more complex molecule tumbles. We know, due to the conversion of energy, when a molecule hits something, it gives up some of it's heat to what ever it strikes. A more complex molecule gives up more.
    I know some here understand the science but from some postings I can see some don't. The reason I wrote this is w/o some knowledge of the thermodynamic process an argument about CC is useless.
    The debate is about human cause. We know from the WW2 studies that humans can affect the atmosphere. The problem today comes from the politicization of science. Now anyone with a gift of flim flam can affect opinion. The Earth doesn't give a rats a$$ about politics. In fact the Earth is indifferent.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  11. Likes Lahrs liked this post.
  12. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    He already shot his wad.

    He's got nothing left.
    Yeah... as I read the thread (from about page 6 or 7)...
    I see Gus has lost his objectiveness...
    And is determined to not loose face.

    Kinda feel for the guy... as he backed himself into this corner...
    Yet does not have the graceful skills to get himself out.

    Oh well...
    Life is a collection of experiences...
    Lets hope Gus learns from this one!!!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  13. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Pardon me for being a bit cynical...

    However America (the USA) and the world...
    Will get along just fine WITHOUT your hope...
    nope, I'm sure like 99% of humans will be extinct around year 2050, probably even earlier. I assume in about 10 years we *may* start to become extinct if the trends continue to increase.

  14. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Most don't know the science behind why certain molecules create a warmer atmosphere.
    CO2 isn't alone. Methane, NO2, water vapor, basically any molecule that isn't a simple structure like O2, N2, etc.
    it is a complex of several problems interlinked together. Greenhouse gases, deforestation, concrete sealing large amounts of soil, pollution, to name a few.

    I can only again repeat the question from previous post, that apparently nobody of the there is no CC section answered:

    do you believe the current rise of co2 has a natural cause?

    you are aware that before humans natural variation of co2 concentration happened at a rate about 1000x times slower?

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